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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 11:20:54 GMT
Hi all, as this section is for my type of scope I thought I would post a pic of it as it is at the moment in its visual use. It's a great scope but as I'm learning may not be ideal for Video Astronomy! im hoping to work with this scope to get into Video Astronomy and I'll update my progress as I put the gear together. Howie did put a thought in my head about selling my scope god forbid , if that happened my thoughts would be this OTA binocularandtelescope.com.au/product/skywatcher-200mm-f4-cf-imaging-ota/on this mount. binocularandtelescope.com.au/product/skywatcher-azeq6-gt-mount/but my concern would be Video Astronomy on Planets ! Also the CPC is iMO easier to use . So so my preference is to work with the CPC . thanks for looking. David.
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Post by Dragon Man on Nov 11, 2016 11:57:27 GMT
Wow Dave, that is overkill! Especially the Mount To be honest, you only need a standard EQ6 and a very short focal length scope. Maybe a fast refractor or a reflector, but the shorter the focal length the better. I have had great success with my ED80 (600mm), 120mm f5 Achro (600mm), and 6" f5 Achro (750mm). All have short focal lengths. I'm not suggesting you use an Achro. But it shows that you don't need massive aperture or expensive scopes for Video Astronomy. The scope you suggest is OK, but just letting you know it doesn't have to be that big. If you go smaller, like an ED80, you don't even need an EQ6. The HEQ5 would be great with an EQ6. The cameras we use are so sensitive that aperture can be small, whereas in Astrophotography Imaging large aperture plays a big role. There are people using their 50mm GS finderscopes for Video Throw out just about everything you ever learned about Imaging. This is different.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 20:43:22 GMT
Wow Dave, that is overkill! Especially the Mount To be honest, you only need a standard EQ6 and a very short focal length scope. Maybe a fast refractor or a reflector, but the shorter the focal length the better. I have had great success with my ED80 (600mm), 120mm f5 Achro (600mm), and 6" f5 Achro (750mm). All have short focal lengths. I'm not suggesting you use an Achro. But it shows that you don't need massive aperture or expensive scopes for Video Astronomy. The scope you suggest is OK, but just letting you know it doesn't have to be that big. If you go smaller, like an ED80, you don't even need an EQ6. The HEQ5 would be great with an EQ6. The cameras we use are so sensitive that aperture can be small, whereas in Astrophotography Imaging large aperture plays a big role. There are people using their 50mm GS finderscopes for Video Throw out just about everything you ever learned about Imaging. This is different. Hi Ken it would seem I have a bit to learn ! Yes I'm thinking big scope heavy mounts like you need for imaging. Yes I can't get my head around a small scope getting results in Video Astronomy. my CPC is heavy in one piece but moveable in two , tripod the OTA on forks easy enough. I would like to find some videos or read some links on Video Astronomy with my type of scope. and not in the Fast Star mode I can set mine up like that but it's not cheap. i would just like to see some information on Video Astronomy with my sort of set up and results? Im really leaning towards a R2 camera now mainly from watching your videos and the simplicity of the whole set up. Thanks David.
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Post by davy on Nov 11, 2016 21:09:43 GMT
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Post by davy on Nov 11, 2016 21:35:54 GMT
Ok,you gave us a tricky one to help you out with,,in this video the chap uses a canon DSLR with live view and to me he has a cracking image of the moon live,, So if you went down the road of using this set up,, a usb cable can be attached to the camera and to a computer,, Canon utilities software Astrotoaster software Backyard Eos software Astrotoaster software Are good options
One of my learned friends who are good on the maths should be able to explain comparisons of a 1/3 Rd chip sensor to the sensor on a DSLR
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Post by davy on Nov 11, 2016 21:48:41 GMT
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Post by howie1 on Nov 12, 2016 1:34:05 GMT
Aha davy (scotland) ... that sounds like a challenge! Unfortunately a long reply. Do hope daveg reads through it ... its long to try to simplify, but may end up being the opposite of whats intended. Sorry if thats the case. You know I'd really like to put together a "So you want to do EAA" video and explain all the stuff I've learnt through blowing heaps of hard earned cash on stuff. I have a bias (which you all know but I think I could leave out commentary and personal bias. Anyhooo ... havent done the vid so here goes ... daveg (aussie) ... you have done visual astronomy and so know a 6mm eyepiece gives heaps of magnification, and a 25mm eyepiece gives much less magnification. Use Google to find the manufacturer/retailers dimension for the cameras sensor ... if they only tell you horizontal and vertical, pick whichever is largest. If they list horizontal, vert and diagonal ... pick whichever is largest. Simple! Huh, I hear you say ... what do I do with that largest dimension? You simply treat it as the same size eyepiece (going to call that EP, ok). The R2 is about 6mm (I think - Google it to check daveg ... but lets assume it is 6mm for now). So the magnification and field of view (FOV) is (roughly) the same as a 6mm EP in your CPC. Canon DSLR is about 23mm so the mag and FOV in your CPC is (roughly) the same as a 23mm EP in your CPC. So from the above you can see why Ken is saying the R2 is great, but also says small focal length (refractors) is ideal. A 6mm EP/R2 in a small OTA around 500mm'ish still yields pretty high mag. But not as high as in your 2000mm CPC! You will see far more objects and those lovely bright big nebs - in color - in the small frac ... but only see small bits of them in the very high mag in your CPC. With cameras you can zoom - yes they get fuzzy pixellated when you zoom - but you can still see smaller objects (ie more magnification via the zoom) and in colour even with the lower focal length OTA's. Take some time to absorb that davy. Then continue on. Ok, next. You should have seen that visually things darken when you put high power EP's in your scope. Or use a barlow. A 23mm EP, Jupiter is really bright. Small but really bright. Plonk in a 6mm EP and it's darker. Yes also bigger. But its darker more contrasty to see the bands etc. What's going on there, is the small 6mm is letting much less light through than the 23mm EP. Much less. Why is that important I hear you say? I wont waffle about "focal ratio" but will focus (excuse the pun) on Alt Az. It doesnt follow the circular paths of objects through the sky in RA (Right ascention), but instead jumps vertically then horizontally (Alt and Az) as it tracks. The stars around the edges of the image all move slightly circular paths around that central point which stays fixed in the centre as it tracked. Its really confusing - I know - took me ages to understand. I put a link below which explains it really well. BUT dont bother reading that link just yet though! Just keep reading my very wordy post first ... LOL Bottom line .... in your orig introduction post, ChrisV said put a focal reducer on your CPC. Why? That does both the above mentioned "nice things" for you ... reduces the focal length of your CPC so everything is less magnified - so you can see more objects. But in halving the focal length it also lets four times more light through to the camera sensor. That is very important, because you have alt az! You need short exposures because otherwise your images will all be streaks around the edges. And .... Ken said above in this post ... ideally, buy a Eq mount and small refractor. He is saying the exact same thing ... because once again the same "nice things" happen. The small frac reduces the focal length where everything is less magnified so you can see more objects, but also the small/short frac has a lower focal ratio than a SCT so the frac lets four times more light through to the camera sensor! However, hope I don't get in trouble from Ken in saying this cos I may have misread his comment Ken is (I think) also hinting at future proofing for you. Because as he says ... ideally Eq mount! Why? It will track in RA and thus allow you to go much longer exposures than your Alt Az. So once you get the hang of EAA you will suddenly find you can see realllllly faint fuzzies ... surprisingly even with a small frac! But you will need the longer exposures which the EQ will allow, but your Alz Az wont. So you have two routes to think about ... keep the CPC and use a reducer (R2 comes with a 0.5x one). And just see how you go! You are going to find frustrations to start with. Push through that as nothing worth doing is easy. If you end up fine with the whole EAA thing, then sell your CPC and fund GEM and short frac. See how you go. Or, you could bite the bullet now and sell the CPC to fund the EQ and learning how to set all that stuff up (!) as well as the camera and kit and all that learning curve. If I were you I kick off with the CPC reducer and R2 and TV and for not much money you can give it a go. Down the track when you get p'd off (LOL) come back and we can chat about my totally biased ideas on EAA (LOL again). Nah ... really shouldnt say that should I... still staggered at the images Ken achieves with his sammies and R1 ... really good. I probably didnt have the nouse to figure it out like he has. I also struggled with the ZWO asi224 with ChrisV blasted past my poor efforts and he got quality I could never achieve in much shorter time than I. Maybe its horses for courses and I just "get" one way of doing EAA and others "get" other ways. Keep this all in mind when you go through your EAA journey daveg! You may be fine with R2 but then maybe you won't ... push through and really squeeze every last drop of info and time to tweak it to get the best before you give up ... or try a different EAA route like EQ + frac. Or anything else. Oh yeah ... alt az rotation and the link ... daltonskygazer.com/alt-azimuth-mount-tracking-movement-and-field-rotation/Cheers
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Post by Dragon Man on Nov 12, 2016 2:05:27 GMT
Good post Howie Dave, your CPC will still give you some decent results. Here's four pics of DSO's grabbed through a CPC 1100 (much longer focal length than your 800) using a simple Orion Starshoot camera (this camera is not even suggested for Video work) and a 0.5x Reducer, and his exposures are only 40 seconds and 60 seconds. www.cloudynights.com/topic/144516-astro-video-image-gallery/page-23#entry3599957The Gstar-Ex3, ZWO ASI224, etc will all be better than this particular camera. Just a suggestion but don't sell off all your gear and upgrade yet. Give your scope a go and see if the rotation annoys you or the FOV is suitable to you, and you are fine with it. The more you Focally Reduce, and the more sensitive the camera, the shorter your exposures need to be, eliminating rotation Lots of Americans use SCT's for their Video Astronomy. But the larger the scope, the more the problems.
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Post by davy on Nov 12, 2016 2:12:26 GMT
😃 would I do a thing like that lol. Uncle John,,scopemobile,, has a 12" lx90 and the mount had a bit of a mishap and I told him to bin the alt az and get an eq mount, he has deforked the meade it's and it's mounted on an eq8 ..now that's a scope, but it has a large finder guider that will go well for av,, where they say no one scope will do it all , the eq mount Will,get a nice big eq mount and a couple of scopes and you can do a lot in astronomy from visual all the way through to astrophotography. I had elected to go heq5 with tripod extension tube ,twin saddle holding SW 200 PD's and ed80 with matched 0.85 focal reducer run from eqmod and CDC,, I think this combo is a winner and covers a lot of bases,, but that's years of planning and hard earned cash, and to be honest my purchases have mostly been ok,, once my observatory shed goes up most of my purchased equipment will be used,, my multi camera array will get a first light,, four CCTV cams fitted to my scopes,one to sw200 PD's two to the ed80 ,, one fitted to scope via my off axis guider,, and one fitted to my orion mini guider,, connected to a four channel DVR,split output,one to a monitor and second two easycap usb grabber in laptop,, now this should be interesting,,if it works the way i want it to,, equipment works fine,, I just the quality of capture I need to worry about,,
The equipment I buy is adaptable to fit all needs ..saves money..nope that's a lie,,still costs a fortune lol..
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Post by davy on Nov 12, 2016 2:19:53 GMT
Another option,,make a bracket to fit your scope,,and fit a nice fast SLR lens to the revolution camera,, best of both worlds,,
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Post by davy on Nov 12, 2016 2:27:05 GMT
My latest set up
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Post by Dragon Man on Nov 12, 2016 2:27:28 GMT
Another option,,make a bracket to fit your scope,,and fit a nice fast SLR lens to the revolution camera,, best of both worlds,,
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 3:11:36 GMT
Many thanks Howie for that great post , Ken and Davy all your information has be invaluable thank you.
I fully understand telescope mechanics etc yes cameras and Video Astronomy is a little newer getting my head around sensor size I'm getting there.
I will re raad Howie's post a few time do some more research and contemplate! But As I said once before time for a deep breath and think on it .
Thanks again all good forum to learn and get a understanding on today's Video Astronomy.
Regards David
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 9:41:14 GMT
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Post by davy on Nov 12, 2016 10:54:38 GMT
Nothing to ponder,, get the two.. lol,, Santa time just round the corner. but it's back to cost, for the price of these combined you could buy a second hand heq5 and a Skywatcher ed80,, then you have two nice set ups.. Personally I would give your DSLR a go first,, it won't cost you a penny to try out,, cable to computer,, canon utilities and astrotoaster ,,this then let's you see how your scope and mount are in video astronomy.. if you can settle for its limitations or you want better and a new set up is required.
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Post by Dragon Man on Nov 12, 2016 11:45:27 GMT
Dave, either will work fine. The Hyperstar or the 0.7x FR. Boy o boy they are expensive! If you get the wedge (also expensive) you will be able to get longer exposures without star-trailing. Which is sort of defeating the whole idea behind 'Live/Near-Live Video Astronomy It all still sounds like you are over-complicating all this and still thinking like an Imager But you already have the CPC, so you might as well use it. BUT, probably the cheapest way to get good results from your scope is to fit a Celestron f6.3 Focal Reducer. Lots of the American blokes use them on their SCT's and you can add more focal reducers into the train to reduce even more. Watch this: and it's fairly cheap! www.ozscopes.com.au/celestron-f-6-3-focal-reducer-corrector-lens.htmlwww.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-016A2
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 21:59:26 GMT
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Post by davy on Nov 12, 2016 23:16:02 GMT
Congratulations on the purchase,, that's a nice big sensor,, will be interesting to see how it works out with the focal reducer and your scope,, looking forward to seeing a first light report,,,and as always on here ,, no pictures,, it didn't happen lol.
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Post by Dragon Man on Nov 13, 2016 13:21:25 GMT
Good choices Dave I'm looking forward to any comments you will have, and pics, from the new Gstar-Ex3 camera. It interests me very much, but I can't lash out over $500 just to try one out May I suggest that you get the 2" nosepiece for the Gstar as it will reduce the amount of Vignetting you might get on DSO's. www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-029G4
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Post by ChrisV on Nov 16, 2016 9:28:46 GMT
As in the video you'll probably want to put a diagonal between the camera and the reducer. It needs a long distance to get it down to 0.63 (google jim thompson focal reducers).
And need the diagonal otherwise you run out of room to the base of the mount.
And have you bought this stuff ? There's a great sale on at bintel now.
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