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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 22:44:34 GMT
After a long standing dispute with the Orion company, Jim Turner has banned the use of any Orion camera for broadcasing on the Night Skies Network.
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Post by davy on Apr 26, 2014 23:23:38 GMT
Why is that allan..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 8:02:56 GMT
I don't know all the details Davy, but it seems that Orion have been trying to boost sales and profits off the back of NSN, but will do nothing to support it, and Jim has had enough.
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Post by davy on Apr 27, 2014 11:03:29 GMT
bit of a shame but these things happen..we had a company on here looking to get in on the market but was all smoke and mirrors with them,,gave them info for av and pushed for discounts for the members but they just shined me off with delayed emails ect and like jim ,i had to say enough was enough and banned them..its a two way street ..give a little get a little..be no loss to jim with the back up from mallincam,,have been in on one of his broadcasts on nsn and he is a gentleman it was minus baltic and he was out broadcasting,,so not all about the money for rock he has the drive and passion for doing va himself..and not heard a bad word on customer support..people you dont mind spending money with..davy
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 27, 2014 11:30:18 GMT
Orion is using NSN's name and Logo to promote and sell their Video cameras even after being ordered to stop doing so. They are still using NSN's name and logo. In their advertising they make it seems as if NSN is an Orion service and that they own it, and allow you to join it by linking to NSN through their software package that comes with the camera and their Video Grabber. Orion is refusing to remove the Logo and name, so Jim has had to take the action of not allowing Orion cameras to be used on his NSN service.
And for this use of NSN's name and Logo as a marketing tool, Jim receives no sponsorship or any form of a contribution from Orion. Orion don't seem to have a very high business integrity.
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Post by davy on Apr 27, 2014 11:56:42 GMT
thats shocking news ken..no wonder jim has done what he has..orion have a bit of a cheek but we dont have all the fact's so commenting is a bit difficult..but and a big but..jim is a true gent who has given up his time to help and promote video astronomy and broadcasts to the world,,long may you continue the good work jim..you have my support.davy
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Post by davy on Apr 27, 2014 11:56:44 GMT
support va ..dont just take the money and run...davy
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 27, 2014 12:08:53 GMT
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Post by davy on Apr 27, 2014 14:02:31 GMT
yeah done for there own sales point..no acknolegement to jim or the site..sales gimick and hype other than that its just another video grabber
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Post by scopesnc on Apr 27, 2014 15:25:41 GMT
All
Let me explain it from my point of view.
I have finally banned a camera from NSN. Not one video camera from Orion Telescopes will be allowed on NSN. Not one. They continue to use cheap words and tricks to market and use the NSN web site to make a profit , but they do nothing ( not one thing ) to support it..
Back a few years ago they wanted to use the NSN name to sell a capture device. I said they could use it for that. ( some reason thought that would be good for all )What they did was sell a camera and package it with the capture device. This was misleading to me and the buyers who thought and some still think Orion ( supports or owns NSN ) A dirty under handed trick. I asked them to stop using the NSN name. They did not. Now they have a new capture device they are selling and they DO NOT HAVE PERMISSION to use the NSN NAME OR LOGO's, yet they still do. Not only that, but they market new cameras with words such as (broadcasting , and web ) . They do this and where do you think those people will go? They know.
I see it like this, ( so far they have given me no reason to see it any other way) they are trying to be underhanded and make a profit from a non profit web site. They will not and never have tried to even support Night Skies Network and what it does and what is stands for. Nope they just want to make money, caring for nothing about the hobby or the out reach of NSN. If they did care they would be offering to support the site. Instead they use these cheap dishonest tactics to make money from a non profit out reach web site.
They do this knowing full well I have asked them to stop.
I normally do not care who's camera is being used on NSN. Never have until now.
OH and you want to buy something from them? REALLY? I won't be. If you support NSN at all you shouldn't either I think.
Jim Turner
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 27, 2014 16:00:36 GMT
Thanks for the clarification Jim.
It's obvious that Orion has no Business morals or integrity.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 16:17:45 GMT
I sympathise with you Jim and understand your stance on this issue.
I, like many other like minded people, found NSN through an interest in video astronomy and near real time viewing. The attraction with NSN is the ability to share our astronomy sessions with those other like minded people, all around the world.
When I discovered video astronomy I was inclined to find not only cameras that were good for my live viewing experience, but also cameras that could be good for broadcasing with in near real time on NSN. This may be the options that others take as well. During our search for ideal cameras, some may look at Orion cameras and see the NSN logo and believe that these cameras are just what they need. This may well serve to make a slight increase in sales for the company, and if these sales brought some revenue to NSN it would be a fair deal. But, as NSN is non profit and makes no revenue from any manufacturer or broadcaster, then it would only seem fair that the company using NSN to further there own ambitions, contribute in some way to the NSN website. A small paid advert, donation, or sponsorship is all that would be required.
Its a shame that some big companies don't share this simple business ethic.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 17:12:17 GMT
Thanks for posting this Allan and thanks Jim for clarifying the issue. It will let our members know in case they are considering one of these cameras with a view to broadcasting on NSN. Keep us posted if there are any developments.
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Post by davy on Apr 27, 2014 19:42:19 GMT
As had been said by others ..Thanks for the clarification jim..and I back your stance, I believe your a man of dignity and if they gave even the smallest donation and gave your site exposure and you credit for your work you would have been delighted. .but this is just big business stepping on the little guys and saying we don't care..we care jim..you have developed a great site that brings a joy to followers of video astronomy and you do it for free, a lot of our guys cant wait to broadcast its a bit addictive at times..lol..your site compliments our forum beautifully and long may it continue. .thank you for your dedication. .davy
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Post by scopesnc on Apr 27, 2014 21:50:14 GMT
As had been said by others ..Thanks for the clarification jim..and I back your stance, I believe your a man of dignity and if they gave even the smallest donation and gave your site exposure and you credit for your work you would have been delighted. .but this is just big business stepping on the little guys and saying we don't care..we care jim..you have developed a great site that brings a joy to followers of video astronomy and you do it for free, a lot of our guys cant wait to broadcast its a bit addictive at times..lol..your site compliments our forum beautifully and long may it continue. .thank you for your dedication. .davy Davy I don't ask much. All I want is for them to just stop using the NSN name and logo. Something they just continue to use no matter what I ask of them. I don't want their money or sponsorship. I just want them to stop and do as I ask. That is all. After seeing how they operate I can only say I would not want them as a sponsor. I'm almost to the point of just shutting it all down now. I have a father who is not doing well ,my free time has become very very limited and fighting such things as this are just not worth it. The only reason I have not stopped yet is because of the NSN people out there. You are the only reason I keep going now. You are the best bunch of people I know.
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Post by davy on Apr 27, 2014 22:02:09 GMT
I know where your coming from jim..having relationship probs myself my partner is pretty ill and has been 2 years and the pressure is overwhelming at times emotionally and no light at end of tunnel by looks I f things..but the guy's on here are great and supportive and have a great bunch of mods and carl my admin is brilliant at this..was my idea to set this forum up but it's the members that make it great..if you need sone help with nsn im shure myself and the guys will help out..keep the faith brother. .davy
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 28, 2014 7:07:04 GMT
Geez Jimbo, if you shut NSN there would be a meltdown in the Video Astronomy world!! You know there are quite a few of us ready to help in any way
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2014 22:52:22 GMT
Thanks for the info Jim and others! Totally understand your stance on this Jim! Thats laughable how they are marketing that new HD cam i linked in another thread as 'a broadcasting camera' but have no intention of supporting anyway to broadcast... I wonder just what the support guys will say to people when they get asked 'where can i broadcast with my new £900 camera?' lol! Being a company the size of orion...its just pathetic in my opinion!
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Apr 30, 2014 2:01:18 GMT
I appreciate everything you do Jim and the service you provide.
I wish you had NSN trademarked so that you can go after Orion with a legal angle. That way you can address them directly, instead of banning broadcasters with previously purchased video cameras. I am sorry you are put in this position, especially with plenty of other concerns you have to deal with.
Best wishes for you and your family.
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Post by scopesnc on May 4, 2014 13:16:28 GMT
All
Orion has agreed to do as I have asked and remove all NSN logos and names from it's advertisements. Thank you kindly for the words of support. Enough on that horrible subject. Have a good day.
Jim Turner
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