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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 15:15:26 GMT
Well I finally sold my 10" LB dob and didn't get as much as I had hoped to get, but it is sold and I have taken the first step into AV, well kind of. So seeing that I have a very low budget to get my feet wet in AV, and the fact that in less than 5 years I will be moving back to Germany, I need to keep things low cost. Searching ebay i found lots of security cameras and was wondering how those would work to get started. This is an example of what i see on ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/301004413437?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITCan such security cameras be used with ok results to start with ?? Next question(s). Since these don't come with some sort of pc program, how does one operate the camera. What cables are needed when using security cameras, especially power such as AC ? Sorry for the newbie questions. I'm a DIY type person who likes to tinker. Or would it be best,cheaper, to buy a AV Cam such as a Mallin or AVS?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 15:55:13 GMT
Hi Rob, I was in your shoes not long ago. I was just taking my first steps in VA and done a lot of searching looking at different cctv cameras that could be used for astronomy. I could be wrong but that cam looks old mate i would doubt its capable for astronomy. Some key words to look out for in a camera sutible for us is... 'Sens-up', 'Sense-up', 'DSS' (digital slow shutter), 'ESS' (electrical slow shutter), Starlight They all mean the same thing....the ability to do long exposures. The minimum you should look for is x512 sense-up (8 sec for ntsc and 10 secs for pal) There are quite a few new cams with x1024 sense-up going about now too. The CCD chips to look out for are sony super HAD and sony EXview. Ignore most other chips unless you know for sure they have at least x512 sense-up. A perfect cam to start out with is the samsung scb2000 (or any other scb200'X') its very popular and gets great results! They can be picked up really cheap if you look hard enough. It will require a little DIY to remove the IR filter. But its easy when you use a good screw driver
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 16:01:26 GMT
Thanks Chris. I looked for the SCB but they show new ones, which in that case it would cost less to go with the AVS DOB-1. ATM I am thinking my mount and scope options. If I keep my XLT102 I will need a fr and use this scope on an Celestron SLT mount. I'm searching for a new or used mount that won't break the bank and leave no funds for a AV Cam. Other option would be to sell the XLT102 CG4 and get the SLT 130 new and the AVS DOB-S. Then get a grabber from Amazon. Lots of options out there that leaves my head spinning..lol
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 16:57:17 GMT
Hi Rob good question as Chris has said, probably the most important feature is the "Sense Up" which means it will internally stack images and give you exposures equal to 8 to 17 seconds or so. These cameras will usually claim to see down to 0.00001 LUX which is the clue although this varies.
The Sense up will usually say up to X512 or x1024, the latter being the longer exposure. All the cameras come with 5 buttons on the rear to control the camera onscreen menu (OSD). You can look at going remote at a later stage.
On cameras,
LN300n (which can fit in a dob), SCB 2000p, SCB 4000, Phil Dyer and up to the high end Mallincam etc. The Mallincam Micro would be a good start.
Keep an eye on Ebay.
The least cabling/items you need is,
1 x power lead 12v 1 x video lead 1 x 12VDC supply (ac/dc or battery) 1 x grabber (if your using a computer) 1 x C mount nose piece
Hope that helps
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 17:04:45 GMT
Its all about the budget mate. I have found buying 'used' you can get great deals! Just keep an eye out! Try posting wanted adds. One thing i have learned tho is never buy a used scope without seeing it in person lol.
On the camera side. Again its all about the budget. The mallincam micro kits are actually pretty decent value for what your getting and great for someone who doesnt know anything about VA as it comes with everything you need. The AVS cams are yet to be proven to be honest mate. I wouldnt be in any mad rush to buy one just yet. Im yet to hear anything positive.
But if you are on a very strict budget you could save some cash getting all the pieces you need separately. The mallincam micro is (unless someone can show me otherwise) not much better if any better...than the LN300 which can be bought from aliexpress for like $60. You could then buy all the other things you need on the cheap.
I would say tho either way you go factor a focal reducer into the budget. They dont cost much tho like $30 for a 0.5 reducer.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 18:10:59 GMT
Carl and Chris thank you very much for all the info. Cheap/budget is where I am at. I haven't read or seen any one post on forums about the LN300. I will have to do a google search on that one.
I should have posted my goal. I would like to use my pc for near live views and maybe screen grabs. I found this on Amazon that was suggested by a member on the CN forum. EasyCAP DC60 - USB 2.0 Audio/video Creator Capture Amazon $8 new/used
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Post by davy on Mar 3, 2014 18:17:17 GMT
Hi rob..the video grabber is essential for video grabs and is as cheap as chips on ebay..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 18:51:50 GMT
Erik there is a thread in reviews here on the LN300. I have one and its very good just hasn't been out much with weather
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Post by johnno on Mar 3, 2014 19:59:01 GMT
Rob, looking at that link for Camera, I don't think its any good for us, you want one that has a OSD with full manual override, that one has dip switches and maybe no sense up which you must have to get the best out of it, what to look for, manual exposure/shutter sense up ,512 or more which is 1024 manual white balance manual gain.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 20:31:26 GMT
Been looking at the threads here on the LN300, not a bad little AV cam. So I was checking for FR and C ring and found this. Would this work with the LN300? If I am seeing this corectly then with this FR I don't need to buy a 1.25-C ring for the camera!!! agenaastro.com/agena-c-cs-mount-focal-reducer.htmlSo now another silly question. The cameras all say 12vDC ! I want to use AC since I will do AV where I have power/electricity. And where would one buy the needed cables/wiring for AV Cams ??
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Post by davy on Mar 3, 2014 20:41:34 GMT
Hi rob..yes the c to 1.25 with focal reducer looks ok..you can use an ac to 12v dc adapter if you have mains power available. .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 21:46:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 22:55:05 GMT
Both very helpful links, thanks Chris. Learning more and more from you all.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2014 0:17:29 GMT
Been thinking.. I just got done doing a few hours of reading thanks to all the the great links you fellas have posted , so now my head is spinning with all this new info, now I need to get all this down someplace. I thought I would set up a spread sheet for all the various info, then take some time to get all this together.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2014 0:26:09 GMT
Another factor is speed. The best results from the cams is around F3 to F5 or so. May help with telescope choice.
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Post by Dragon Man on Mar 4, 2014 7:14:46 GMT
Rob, I would have gladly suggested the Samsung SCB-2000, the LN300, or the Phil Pyer PD1 colour camera, but since then Mallincam have brought out their Micro-Ex Deluxe and it is excellent. It is already set up as an Astronomy camera (no modification required by you). The manufacturer (Rock Mallin) redesigned the circuitry and ability of the camera to be superior to the standard LN300 camera. The kit comes with everything you need except the Video Grabber which can be bough from here: www.ezcap.tv/usb-video-capture/ezcap116-capture-card. That will set you up with some good starter gear. Mallincam Micro-Ex Deluxe - $169.99 US Funds including 1.25" eyepiece adapter, AC power supply, 25 feet video/power cable and BNC to RCA adapter. Scroll down to camera: mallincam.tripod.com/id64.htmlEzCap Video Grabber - www.ezcap.tv/usb-video-capture/ezcap116-capture-cardThese items are cheap in the UK, but may be too dear in the USA. In that case try a cheaper brand. If you won't be using a computer, just a TV or monitor, you won't need the Video Grabber.
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