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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 17:48:40 GMT
With the new posting rules and defining what electronic observing is and is not, I am looking forward to an improved forum there. It is already refreshing not to have thread after thread of certain images there (and here I might add).Being only a single equipment focused forum, it cannot offer the variety of this forum. Activity there has been lessened but I think everyone is a bit unsure of just what to post, so join up and post it here! .....Dwight
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Post by davy on Jul 10, 2014 19:06:49 GMT
each to there own...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 20:06:40 GMT
Thanks Dwight, we spent quite a bit of time on looking at definitions of video and different cameras and software and hopefully have came up with a forum that accommodates most without having to clarify what is what as it where. My personal opinion is that on other forums posts and attacks have been allowed to continue far too long without stepping in and resolving issues with what is regarded as video astronomy which just ruins the hobby. In saying that there will always be blurred lines with the speed of tech. Its a common sense approach here Enjoy!
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Post by davy on Jul 10, 2014 20:50:11 GMT
Yeh carl's right in what he says,it's shame to hear about mud slinging on other forums and if not monitored constantly posts may slip through and before you know it all hell breaks loose..all our moderators have been made administrators with full powers to make decisions on posts. .but the members on here are great and respect gets respect..the forum is for the members and as said before we have a suggestion board as proof..we have tried to move with the changing tech in video and have implemented new boards to move with the times...we have included nightsight/image intensifier board at the suggestion of ken..he heard that due to policy change they were possibly losing a place to post. .it's there if they need it....live video astronomy is new to here as well it was implemented due to a suggestion. .we do listen guys..give us feedback and we try and make this a one stop shop..keep posting make us no1 for video astronomy. .davy
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:03:13 GMT
Yeh carl's right in what he says,it's shame to hear about mud slinging on other forums and if not monitored constantly posts may slip through and before you know it all hell breaks loose..all our moderators have been made administrators with full powers to make decisions on posts. .but the members on here are great and respect gets respect..the forum is for the members and as said before we have a suggestion board as proof..we have tried to move with the changing tech in video and have implemented new boards to move with the times...we have included nightsight/image intensifier board at the suggestion of ken..he heard that due to policy change they were possibly losing a place to post. .it's there if they need it....live video astronomy is new to here as well it was implemented due to a suggestion. .we do listen guys..give us feedback and we try and make this a one stop shop..keep posting make us no1 for video astronomy. .davy Hi,
I joined the CN Video section when it first formed, I hung in there for three weeks but gave it away after seeing so much miss-information being posted by 'one week experts'. Imagine, I have been doing astro video since 1988, own and have used more varied video cameras and computers than maybe most anyone else-so have gained real life hands on experience, plus I used high end pro video gear in my medical science work. Fools and I part very quickly, time is too precious to waste on non productive garbage. This CN section reminds me of the attitude to newcomers with GoTo telescopes. "You cannot be a real observer because you don't use a red torch and sky charts", and so it goes. With some folks if they do not understand the technology, then it cannot be any good-attitude.
I am sure this group has started off with an open mind and the right attitudes, otherwise I would not be here. With the great guys looking after the site and inviting suggestions and looking at new technologies etc. it has a long and interesting life as I see it, with lots of accurate info to get newcomers on the right track. I am happy to read about other peoples uses for video systems, be it astronomy, nature observing, whatever, always something new to learn.
Clear skies... Shevill
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Post by davy on Jul 10, 2014 22:25:05 GMT
wow..thank you very much shevill for your comments..i and im very shure the rest of the administration will get a great feeling of appreciation in your words,coming from one of the first video astronomers. this site was my vision but with the help of my fellow administrators that I concider friends now,we have came a long distance in trying to provide proper help to astronomers who wish to move into video astronomy,in the short time we have been here I am very happy with the progress made and the content of the forum,yes it has been mentioned that video is a bit part in astronomy and to the part it is true but since the development of the forum myself and the fellow members of the forum keep pushing the boundries in what technology has to offer astronomy and any other piece of technology we can introduce to video astronomy..yes technology has changed fast in the last year but so have we ...we wont become a dinosaur and become extinct because we wont move with the time I can see this site moving along nicely hand in hand with technology over the years,,,davy
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Post by Dragon Man on Jul 11, 2014 13:05:59 GMT
Thank you Dwight and Shevill.
I totally understand what you are saying about wasting time in nonsense forums Shevill. I have been a member in many of the same Forums as you over the years and both of us have left them because of much the same reasons. Australian Forums have not been guiltless either with that woeful mess called IceInSpace. Glad I left that place years ago.
Our hope here is to listen to our members suggestions to improve this place, as the members ARE the forum. Too many Forums are out to promote their products (CN), or the forum owner (IIS). Here, we are out to promote a particular field of Astronomy, as we aren't owned by a business or a person. Otherwise I wouldn't be involved either.
In here we allow a manufacturer/retailer to answer questions about their products, not muzzle them. If Someone asks a question about a PD-1 camera we'd all be more than happy to hear Peter Dyer give an answer, same with Rock and Jack with Mallincam, James with gear from his shop, etc.
We also don't mind if they sneak in an advertisement now and then about any new Product news they might want to share with us. If it's for the benefit of Video Astronomy, it's all good.
And now we have in-house Broadcasting assistance and a linked section to Broadacsting on JustinTV, it helps to build a one-stop-shop community. There will be more to come too, to enhance a members time here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 20:56:59 GMT
Thank you Dwight and Shevill. I totally understand what you are saying about wasting time in nonsense forums Shevill. I have been a member in many of the same Forums as you over the years and both of us have left them because of much the same reasons. Australian Forums have not been guiltless either with that woeful mess called IceInSpace. Glad I left that place years ago. Our hope here is to listen to our members suggestions to improve this place, as the members ARE the forum. Too many Forums are out to promote their products (CN), or the forum owner (IIS). Here, we are out to promote a particular field of Astronomy, as we aren't owned by a business or a person. Otherwise I wouldn't be involved either. In here we allow a manufacturer/retailer to answer questions about their products, not muzzle them. If Someone asks a question about a PD-1 camera we'd all be more than happy to hear Peter Dyer give an answer, same with Rock and Jack with Mallincam, James with gear from his shop, etc. We also don't mind if they sneak in an advertisement now and then about any new Product news they might want to share with us. If it's for the benefit of Video Astronomy, it's all good. And now we have in-house Broadcasting assistance and a linked section to Broadacsting on JustinTV, it helps to build a one-stop-shop community. There will be more to come too, to enhance a members time here. Hi Ken, You got that 100% right about IIS, it did not take me long to fall out with said owner when he blocked a personal post (because I wrote for S&S). Never been back since and that was a long time ago. I also tried a few other local forums for a while, but there also seemed to be little groups withing groups with some sort of poor attitude, so gave them all a miss, subsequently saved a lot of precious time for interesting projects and scientific communications at a much higher level. I am pretty confident this group will not fall into the same traps. Clear skies... Shevill
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 1:44:57 GMT
I really like this forum because its members are all about sharing the glorious experience of witnessing the treasures of the night sky..regardless of method or technology...
Shevill: well said! I was honestly fuming all afternoon about a post on another forum regarding use of GOTO and being a "lesser" observer...to each his own..but really..to assume that the use of GOTO means somehow that you're cheating and not learning the sky is silly...I have a job with lots of night call, live in light polluted bay area with quick transition from sunny to foggy..so anything that helps me get out there and quickly find and experience these sights is good in my book...it only encourages me to read and learn more about them and the surrounding sky and be a better observer
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 3:29:32 GMT
I really like this forum because its members are all about sharing the glorious experience of witnessing the treasures of the night sky..regardless of method or technology... Shevill: well said! I was honestly fuming all afternoon about a post on another forum regarding use of GOTO and being a "lesser" observer...to each his own..but really..to assume that the use of GOTO means somehow that you're cheating and not learning the sky is silly...I have a job with lots of night call, live in light polluted bay area with quick transition from sunny to foggy..so anything that helps me get out there and quickly find and experience these sights is good in my book...it only encourages me to read and learn more about them and the surrounding sky and be a better observer Hi,
I once spent an evening observing with a fellow astronomer who had his GoTo scope well set up. We kept count of the number of objects we actually spent time looking at. Alongside us was a fellow with red torch, sky charts etc, he spent more time searching for his objects than observing. It was at least 10 to 1 in our favour. I subsequently wrote an article about that night in an astronomy magazine. It attracted a lot of comments, not all complimentary! Some folks just have a real problem with progress!
A GoTo scope is really very useful in many ways,if you have: limited clear skies, limited observing nights/time/moonlight etc. what is the point of spending 40-minutes out of an hour's available time looking at sky charts and trial & error to find two or three objects. Does it matter you have not come up the 'hard' way? no, I don't think so. Astronomy for many is looking at the object in the time available for a hobby.
Clear skies... Shevill
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Post by davy on Jul 12, 2014 8:29:13 GMT
Well said shevill....my outtake on astronomy is do what makes you happy,not every night you feel like trawling through the night sky with a scope..take a step back observe the beauty of it with your eyes much better than a scope at times,this is true live viewing...goto scopes ..brilliant invention ,you see an image in a book ect..what will it look like with my kit,two min later your looking at it..family ask me from time to time what's that there up in the sky..I reply a star or a planet .and they say I thought you were an astronomer..I reply if I had ten lifetime I still couldn't name them..point is I love the stars but I would rather use my time learning how to capture them in all there glory..astronomy is like ice cream to me you have many flavours why stick to one..I love looking at the moon how many look at as a nuisance. .embrace technology let it do a job and give us more time to do the things the way we want..remote viewing use it..watch a recording when you have the time..multiple set ups use it..basically its a hobby and ment to be fun..if you find its not fun dont do it..davy
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willw
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Post by willw on Jul 18, 2014 18:31:21 GMT
Hi,First off. i wont to thank Davy and all for starting this site. I have Ben a member of c/n and still am for over 9 years.Over the years i learned a lot from that site and still do. I started looking at the video forum there.I got my first 2 video cams a SDC_435 Samsung.1 for a spare.So far it does what i wont.Ever camera made has a place in astronomy. Regardless off what type of cam it is. CCD,Webcam,Video,Dslr,even Hubble.Each one has its limitations. I am reading the posts on this page as i go and writing. Each post makes me think.With the new rules on c/n not much going on. I have wondered what the difference is between old & new rules really is. I don' think to many people there know what video really is. NO,I an not a electrical engineer either. To me you have to understand the process works in a video camera. Not just all the technical aspects of it.In other words PLAIN language for people to understand what video is.I agree with all who have posted here have said. IF ANYONE HERE REALLY wont's to know how and why the video section in c/n is in the shape it gotten to now. You can go back 1 1/2 to 2 years and read. If it can be found since the site upgrade.I could on, but i wont about it. I'm sure all that wont happen at this site. will w
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Post by davy on Jul 18, 2014 21:01:38 GMT
it's a shame that cloudy nights is having problems with the video section,i take no pleasure in seeing any in house arguments on astronomy forums and hope they can sort it out...but on the other hand part of the blame must come down to moderation if the forum has clear outlines to members. if the rules are infringed the moderators come in with an open mind and make an assessment that does not embarrass the member and a private message is issued pointing out the forum terms of membership all should be ok..and the admin staff on here apply this principle to this forum. my personal view is I will use any camera I want when I want,because this is my ..but as a member of this site I have to adere to the rules as well
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Post by Dragon Man on Jul 19, 2014 7:54:25 GMT
Yes Will, in the process of clarifying the Video section rules in CN they have actually made it worse! It was a Forum for Electronic ' Observing' using specified 'Equipment'.It used to be a simple clear cut explanation: 'Video & Electronically Assisted', and Title and the subtitle said it all: The original title: Video & Electronically Assisted Astronomy dedicated to the use of Mallincam, Stellacam, Collins I3, etc for 'semi-live' electronically assisted viewing of astronomical events and targets.Note the reference to 'Viewing'. which was then watered down about 6 months ago and changed to: Video & Electronically Assisted Astronomydedicated to 'semi-live' electronically assisted viewing of astronomical events and targets.Note the reference to 'Viewing' still. All they did was remove product limitation. That's fine. But now it says: Electronically Assisted Astronomy A meeting place for people that use or wish to discuss Electronically Assisted Astronomy and the equipment used to achieve these goals.Not a single reference to Observing, or Visual. The Forum Guidelines used to say: 'The spirit of this forum is about the hardware that we use to enhance the visual experience in Astronomy'Notice the word 'Visual' again! That statement has been removed from the guidelines. It was "Edited by David Pavlich (23/06/14 11:32 PM), and now it only says what size photos you may post: www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4232772/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1Now, because of the new rules, I can post information about any Electronic equipment I use that assists me to achieve my goals in Astronomy. I can make a thread about my Electronic Focuser. It is electronic and it achieves its purpose in my astronomy. So does my electronically height controlled observing chair. You are totally within the rules to post about anything electronic that helps assist you in your Astronomy. And post photos of your focuser, chair etc to accompany the post. Because that's EXACTLY what the new title and explanation confirms. And to absolutely confirm it, here are their New CN Rules: ________________________ This forum is for the discussion of Electronically Assisted Astronomy. It is not an imaging forum. You may post any image that you like that demonstrates your equipment’s capabilities or to demonstrate what a new modification or a new piece of hardware has achieved. With this image, information on how the image was finalized accompanying the image is strongly encouraged. In other words, let us know the steps required to make the final posted image.
Refrain from creating threads like “Let’s see your M42” or “Let’s see your 2 second M13”. This is not the purpose of this forum. It is the reason that EAA is in the Equipment Sub Section and not in Imaging.
David Pavlich
CN Admin Team ________________________
Nowhere does it state what the electronically assisted piece of equipment is for, or what it must do. All it has to do is assist you to achieve your goal in Astronomy! So that section of CN is for practically any equipment, if it electronically assists you. It is NOT about the use of cameras any more. They should have just left it alone!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 3:47:15 GMT
Yes Will, in the process of clarifying the Video section rules in CN they have actually made it worse! It was a Forum for Electronic ' Observing' using specified 'Equipment'.It used to be a simple clear cut explanation: 'Video & Electronically Assisted', and Title and the subtitle said it all: The original title: Video & Electronically Assisted Astronomy dedicated to the use of Mallincam, Stellacam, Collins I3, etc for 'semi-live' electronically assisted viewing of astronomical events and targets.Note the reference to 'Viewing'. which was then watered down about 6 months ago and changed to: Video & Electronically Assisted Astronomydedicated to 'semi-live' electronically assisted viewing of astronomical events and targets.Note the reference to 'Viewing' still. All they did was remove product limitation. That's fine. But now it says: Electronically Assisted Astronomy A meeting place for people that use or wish to discuss Electronically Assisted Astronomy and the equipment used to achieve these goals.Not a single reference to Observing, or Visual. The Forum Guidelines used to say: 'The spirit of this forum is about the hardware that we use to enhance the visual experience in Astronomy'Notice the word 'Visual' again! That statement has been removed from the guidelines. It was "Edited by David Pavlich (23/06/14 11:32 PM), and now it only says what size photos you may post: www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4232772/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1Now, because of the new rules, I can post information about any Electronic equipment I use that assists me to achieve my goals in Astronomy. I can make a thread about my Electronic Focuser. It is electronic and it achieves its purpose in my astronomy. So does my electronically height controlled observing chair. You are totally within the rules to post about anything electronic that helps assist you in your Astronomy. And post photos of your focuser, chair etc to accompany the post. Because that's EXACTLY what the new title and explanation confirms. And to absolutely confirm it, here are their New CN Rules: ________________________ This forum is for the discussion of Electronically Assisted Astronomy. It is not an imaging forum. You may post any image that you like that demonstrates your equipment’s capabilities or to demonstrate what a new modification or a new piece of hardware has achieved. With this image, information on how the image was finalized accompanying the image is strongly encouraged. In other words, let us know the steps required to make the final posted image.
Refrain from creating threads like “Let’s see your M42” or “Let’s see your 2 second M13”. This is not the purpose of this forum. It is the reason that EAA is in the Equipment Sub Section and not in Imaging.
David Pavlich
CN Admin Team ________________________
Nowhere does it state what the electronically assisted piece of equipment is for, or what it must do. All it has to do is assist you to achieve your goal in Astronomy! So that section of CN is for practically any equipment, if it electronically assists you. It is NOT about the use of cameras any more. They should have just left it alone! [ It is a case of fix 'til it's broke. And now it is broke. Neither main astrovideo vendors can post there. Astrovideo there is now watered down to now anything that can acquire an image of any sort. Having moderators that have no idea nor interest in astrovideo really is what pretty much killed it. They let things slide due to their ignorance. This forum feels more comfortable....thanks for starting it...Dwight
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Post by Dragon Man on Jul 22, 2014 5:02:53 GMT
Thanks Dwight. All we need is to get the membership posting Even Vendors are welcome to post here. But I think they have been ill-treated elsewhere and scared to post in case they just get deleted or banned again. We want them to post here.
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Post by davy on Jul 22, 2014 9:41:02 GMT
I feel for the admin team at cloudy nights.my outlook on there plight is this ..they have a large forum and have tried to cover as many subjects as possible..and why not..but as said they probably dont have dedicated video astronomers to cover the video section 24hrs a day..we are lucky in a way,we are a dedicated forum for video users and I set it up for the members to shape and form into what they would like to join in with..we have a suggestion board this..and if its not on the forum allready let us know and we will try n make it work..we implemented live astronomy and is ready to go weather permitting. .we have live chat still in its infancy and we all seem to miss each other on it,but it will come good in the end.. we have members but we need posting members its frustrating to watch at times seeing so many guests and them not popping in to say hello..we were all newbies once,I still regard myself as a newbie and read all posts to gain more knowledge to help others.. vendors are welcome as ken says..talk to admin staff and we can work stuff out... we are a dedicated video astronomy site and wish to help and include all that participate in the advancement of video astronomy. ...davy
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