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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 10:45:41 GMT
G'day all I use an orion flip mirror to centre and focus objects with my mallincam xtreme and LX90 10 ". I need to keep adjusting the alt az to keep them on the TV screen. Would an Orion Starshoot Autoguider keep them on screen or does it mean I just need to improve the quality of alignment in the first place. Paul
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 10:56:45 GMT
G'day all I use an orion flip mirror to centre and focus objects with my mallincam xtreme and LX90 10 ". I need to keep adjusting the alt az to keep them on the TV screen. Would an Orion Starshoot Autoguider keep them on screen or does it mean I just need to improve the quality of alignment in the first place. Paul Hi Paul and welcome from me! I have never tried guiding myself so someone else May chip in on that one. I can say however, if you can't keep an object on the screen long enough to get focus then something must be wrong with your tracking not your alignment. I had several issue recently with my tracking but it turned out to be a power issue which to be fair is the cause of most issues!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 11:52:50 GMT
Thanks Karl I am able to get focus. Its just that the object slowly tracks off the screen. Paul
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Post by Dragon Man on Jun 5, 2014 12:52:11 GMT
G'day Paul.
When I first started Video about 3 years ago I actually set up the same as I did for Imaging. That meant Autoguiding.
On my first feeble attempt the objects stayed centred as expected. Then I did a broadcast on NSN and I was pleased with the results that guiding gave me. Then I noticed that no-one else at that time on NSN was using guiding so I tried without. And guess what? It made no difference. So, after that first time (well, twice actually) I never used guiding again. I haven't needed it. But yes, being aligned is the tip. You don't have to be 100% dead accurate. But as close as possible. Obviously the closer the better.
If you are drifting off screen, it must be enough off to be a problem. If you tweak the alignment just that bit more you will get an object to stay centred for quite a while, if not permanently.
I am not familiar with Alt/Az mounts, only EQ mounts, so I am sure one of the Alt/Az blokes in here will help you with suggestions as to how to get your alignment and tracking better.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 13:10:25 GMT
Hi Paul I have a LX90 8". Can I ask when you last performed a 'calibrate motors' and a 'train drives'? Doing these regularly is meant to improve tracking accuracy. From what you say above I would assume your running in Alt/az mode and don't have a wedge... But you mention a flip mirror so not sure how you can use that without crashing into the base without a wedge I don't know if guiding is possible in alt/az. Also I dunno if the newer models have it...but my lx90 doesn't have a ST4 port for guiding. It requires a 909 module (which meade don't make anymore...there is a clone available tho) but ive not got one. Also balance could be playing a part in poor tracking. I would say on average my lx90 gives me around 50 secs exposures at f5 (using 0.5 reducer) without star trails with a good alignment. 30 secs with a very rough quick alignment. The object should never drift off the screen though! Maybe on planets at f20-30 (using a barlow) but defo not at f5! Stupid question...but you defo haven't changed the 'Tracking type' to terrestrial have you? Not sure if its even possible to do that tho...as once you perform the alignment I thought it automatically switched to 'astronomical' or whatever its called. Worth having a check maybe tho.
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Post by Dragon Man on Jun 5, 2014 16:32:17 GMT
Hey, here's a thought. What tracking speed are you on? Sidereal - for tracking stars and almost all of space. Lunar - for tracking the Moon Solar - for tracking the Sun Different objects move through the sky at different speeds. I had a look at the User manual for your LX90 and it has Sidereal and Automatic. The manual is not very descriptive but I imagine the Automatic setting changes speeds when looking at different objects like the Moon and planets when located by the Goto function. You can find it on page 17 under "To Track an Object Automatically" here: www.meade.com/manuals/TelescopeManuals/LXseries/LX-90_manual.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 9:17:13 GMT
Thanks Fellas I am in Sidereal but I have never performed a calibrate motors and am now very careful with the flip mirror having crashed it on the base in the past. It is alt /az and no wedge. Maybe my tracking is not that bad .I thought autoguiding was something I had to learn . When I look at the setups of you blokes, I have always thought the piggyback scope was an autoguider. Are they just a more sophisticated finder? .If they are a finder do you have much trouble locating the dimmer objects because I certainly do. Seems like I need to take a trip over to Snake Valley . Truth be known , I went out and bought a starshoot autoguider and 50mm guidescope a couple of months ago but haven't set it up yet as I was waiting for the pod to arrive so I could set it all up and leave it setup. The guidescope has a helical focuser and can fit 1.25 inch eyepieces so I will give it a go on the LX90 cheers Paul
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Post by davy on Jun 6, 2014 9:59:59 GMT
Hi..you will probably be told by most that guiding is not required because video capture is way faster than ap and only a tracking mount is required. .dont even need a goto mount..but lol its a nice feature...double scope are a mixture could be a large scope with a small fov and a smaller faster wide fov scope. .or as you said a finder scooe with camera. .you have bought the stuff give it a go and tell us your findings. .davy
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 10:13:37 GMT
Hi Paul, Perform a 'calibrate motors'(takes 2 secs). I think its to do with the power supply. So do this whenever you change about your power options (mains, battery etc)So the scope knows exactly how much power its getting...or something along they lines And as I said do a 'Train drives' and make sure you do it for both axis! You need to center an object...the scope will move in a direction and you just need to re-center the object. (4 times...up, down, left and right) I think this option is the most important for tracking purposes! It corrects the amount of backlash the scope gives apparently. And will improve GOTO's. Yes Paul the piggyback scope I have is nothing but a fancy finder nothing to do with guiding I love it! Works very well for me! As you know the lx90 gives you a tiny FOV! So this gives me the total opposite FOV to the lx90. Meaning I can use it to observe huge objects and also use it to help locate objects in the main scope. As far as your autoguiding goes... I have never heard of anyone guiding in alt/az! Also look into what I mentioned about the Meade 909 module. I have a feeling you cant use your autoguider until you buy a 909. And yes I feel your pain with crashing into the base!! My Sammy has crashed into the base many times... I got sick of the restriction it caused and now just use a diagonal as I already have a very limited view and cant afford to lose any sky. Can I ask...you are using a focal reducer yeh? Reducing your focal length improves your tracking as it gives you a wider FOV.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 11:32:12 GMT
Thanks Chris and Davy I have a prostar .5 reducer and a celestron f/6.3. I have a few things to try now. cheers Paul
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Post by davy on Jun 6, 2014 12:31:16 GMT
Nice pod john looks great..davy
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Post by Dragon Man on Jun 6, 2014 12:45:47 GMT
Yeah Paul, come on down mate. It's only about 1 1/2 hour drive. Some of our members live 3 hours away and regularly drive here for club night. You don't have to wait until a club night though. Come whenever you want to because I live here. My phone number is on the contact page here: ballaratman.wix.com/svaa#!contact
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 17:54:23 GMT
I always guide, but its not required unless you want to stack. Stacking in miloslick does not do any kind of star alignment. Also since your alt/az you prob do not want to stack anyway, as you will suffer field rotation if the sum of the stacks is much over 45-60 sec.
Also I do not think you can guide in Alt/Az mode. I think it would require a wedge.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 21:29:59 GMT
I always guide, but its not required unless you want to stack. Stacking in miloslick does not do any kind of star alignment. Also since your alt/az you prob do not want to stack anyway, as you will suffer field rotation if the sum of the stacks is much over 45-60 sec. Also I do not think you can guide in Alt/Az mode. I think it would require a wedge. Excellent points you make Lee and you are completely correct. ** It also depends on what focal length you are going to use (not talking about Miloslicks stacking) and if your going to use 1000 mm or more then you better be prepared to guide if you want the best roundest tightest stars since that translates to great faint details. If I am going to use my TMB 80 mm refractor or Canon lenses then I really do not need to guide at those shorter focal lengths so as I said it all depends on what's planned for the night.
Chris A Astrogate
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 21:06:21 GMT
Greetings Paul and Brain Trust,,
From all my understanding you CANNOT Guide in ALT/AZ... If you can I would return the guiding set-up. There are some on Mallincam site that say can get 2 minutes using an ALT/AZ, My $0.02 Kasey
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 21:48:30 GMT
Greetings Paul and Brain Trust,, From all my understanding you CANNOT Guide in ALT/AZ... If you can I would return the guiding set-up. There are some on Mallincam site that say can get 2 minutes using an ALT/AZ, My $0.02 Kasey Hi Kasey,
I have heard several times Rock Mallin mention how he uses a field rotator on his alt/az and how he prefers to keep integration periods to a minimum. Perhaps this is something worth looking at...
Oops, Field De-Rotator, sorry!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 6:47:08 GMT
Greetings Paul and Brain Trust,, From all my understanding you CANNOT Guide in ALT/AZ... If you can I would return the guiding set-up. There are some on Mallincam site that say can get 2 minutes using an ALT/AZ, My $0.02 Kasey Hi Kasey,
I have heard several times Rock Mallin mention how he uses a field rotator on his alt/az and how he prefers to keep integration periods to a minimum. Perhaps this is something worth looking at...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 6:54:29 GMT
You can guide using Alt AZ, But Field Rotation still happens, thus De-rotators are / were available (Meade and Optec). The Focal Reduction also makes a big difference. With Hyperstar (F2) maybe 60 sec max, With Barlow (F25) 30 sec max. Actual experience. Cheers Patrick www.flickr.com/photos/skywatch_utah/sets/72157635347769845/
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Post by Dragon Man on Jun 24, 2014 7:07:27 GMT
Good advice Pat. That link looks familiar. I'm sure I just saw it elsewhere which will remain nameless
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 15:33:59 GMT
Good advice Pat. That link looks familiar. I'm sure I just saw it elsewhere which will remain nameless toooo funny Ken....Thanks Patrick
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