I am a proud member of a team working on a multi-platform live stacking solution : ALS (Astro Live Stacker als-app.org)
It runs fine on PC (GNU/Linux and Windows 7 to 10), OSX and RaspBerry. Feel free to test on any other system and report
Current stable version is very basic : Polling a folder to detect *new* images (any FITS or DSLR RAW) then align + stack (Mean or Sum) + autostrech + levels + RGB balance.
I stress this, as many readers tend to get it wrong : ALS won't stack images that are already in the scanned folder when a session is started. ALS is a live stacker. It is made to work in the field, during an observation session.But we are of course open to suggestions
ALS also has a built-in webserver so your pals at the astroclub can see the results, provided everyone is on the same network.
We are working hard on new features like Dark subtraction + Hot pixel removal and are providing nightly builds for you guys to try it out. Check out als-app.org/nightlies/
Handling image capture directly inside ALS using INDI protocol is on our roadmap too. check out our Github repo to know more about it
If you could give it a try and help us make ALS a fun & easy way to see and share all those wonders above our heads, that would be much appreciated !
Clear skies to all !
--
Fred
Last Edit: May 9, 2020 12:15:08 GMT by Deleted: add link to github repo
That's the sound of it going over my head Well done Fred. I don't understand a single piece of the website info but it looks and sounds great.
Sorry, but I am one of those people that doesn't understand Computer lingo or terminology. I really need to learn some of it one day if I want to use all this stuff. Believe it or not I still can't even undo those 'Zip' files that some things come in. I always get it wrong then just give up. I've probably lost hundreds of downloads because of it
But that's life. Not everyone speaks computer I'll wait until someone visits our observatory and shows me what all the info on your website means. One of our members is pretty clued up on computers (thanks Tim)
My only question at the moment is: Does it capture and stack in live view like ToupSky, RisingSky, and Sharpcap?
Cheers, Ken
__________________________________________ Ken James - Snake Valley Australia CAMERAS: Samsung SDC-2000 & SCB-4000, Mallincam Xtreme & Xterminator, 3 different Revolution Imagers, 2 ToUcams, SX-5c, Canon 350d, Canon 450d, Canon 6d, 2 different IMX224's, IMX178, and FLI PL16803. Broadcaster on NSN as 'Ken James' HERE --> www.nightskiesnetwork.com/ MY ASTROPHOTOGRAPHY HERE-->ballaratman.wixsite.com/astrophotos
That's the sound of it going over my head Well done Fred. I don't understand a single piece of the website info but it looks and sounds great.
Sorry, but I am one of those people that doesn't understand Computer lingo or terminology. I really need to learn some of it one day if I want to use all this stuff. Believe it or not I still can't even undo those 'Zip' files that some things come in. I always get it wrong then just give up. I've probably lost hundreds of downloads because of it
But that's life. Not everyone speaks computer I'll wait until someone visits our observatory and shows me what all the info on your website means. One of our members is pretty clued up on computers (thanks Tim)
My only question at the moment is: Does it capture and stack in live view like ToupSky, RisingSky, and Sharpcap?
No problemo !
It will be much clearer in a couple days, when video presentation & demo is online.
ALS does not (yet) handle image capture. It monitors a folder on you computer for new images. and its stacks them as they arrive and show the evolving result in the main window
I just uploaded a very basic video (no sound) that shows ALS running and live stacking 4s shots of M27 taken with an OSC camera. The constant arrival of shots into the scanned folder is simulated with a script, but you'll get the idea
Hi Fred and welcome to the forum, although, as a pretty new member myself I'm keen to learn from everyone. I'm curious tho, what prompted the thought to create another piece of software that seems (at a quick glance) to do what is possibly covered by other software already? Not that I have any experience with the many options out there, using Sharpcap myself.
So, watched the video. A bit confusing to begin with till realise we're looking at the python (?) interface, then it looks nice, bit hard to pick out the details in following the mouse around with the red/night-vision engaged tho. Couldn't really make out what processing you had functioning at the time; saw the areas for RGB and other (stretch?) but not easy to see what/where they were at. Great looking stars tho! What was the equipment used? Camera settings? The images were coming in pretty fast.
So it disregards any existing images in the nominated folder? No worry then about starting sequence re camera then ALS or ALS then camera start? Not sure I'm ready to wrestle pythons at this stage of my astro journey, maybe after you have an auto installer? Preferably x.msi or x.exe (for a window junkie anyway.....
Well I hope this doesn't sound like a heavy critisism although as a professional software eng/programmer I'm sure you're more than used to options/features/requests being thrown at you Hope you got through the C19 okay and you and yours are fine.
Fred, I'm going to sound a bit negative, but read on as maybe a suggestion will push you (obviously talented software dudes) in a new different direction?
I've pretty much the same comment as what Ian's posted. There's astrotoaster and sharpcap and dss_live which will all accept frames in a variety of formats and live stack. Just point those various cameras to save frames in a monitored folder and that software which monitors that folder will fully process the images. Some only operate on 1 or 2 platforms, but some have live stacking on raspberry pi OSX and other OS. And there's heaps more features in these and many other software. I mean heaps ... control dslr cameras and all the astro cameras and features like binning and coolers, as well do plate solving, as well as control the mount to accurately land on targets using platesolving using ascom or indi, and control eFocusers and darks flats bias, and do polar alignment in just a few minutes, and do all that wirelessly, even do it all on iDevices or Android, on and on the feature lists go.
So here's the suggestion ... and the reason why I suggest it too ....
Every one of the dozens of software mentioned start out very useful and pretty simple to operate for beginners! Heaps of new people get into the hobby because of that. But as their experience grows and as old experienced folks also try that new easy software out, it bloats! More, and more, and more features are added ... until new beginners simply stop doing the hobby as it becomes way too complicated for them to use. There's many, many posts telling new beginners how to connect via wifi, and ascom, and plate solvers, and take flats and darks, and on and on it goes. With many trying to install and get it all operating only to finally give up ... many before they have even gotten one decent image. You simply dont see those folk ever post again. They just disappear after posting up their final .... "I give up" statement online.
Why don't you guys (and gals?) doing this new software development try something different? Like I and Ian said, there are already heaps of software out there doing what you have created ... and far, far more features than that yours is doing. But there is zero, nada, no software out there actually showing workflows and on the screen tips for what to adjust and what to look for in the histogram, etc. I do not mean "true" AI, but just apply what are known physics and workflows of how to do VA / EAA / fast imaging.
EG there is one recent software, available on multiple platforms, which everyone has said is great for beginners. It has few sliders and is indeed good for beginners. But it is brand dependent! And even worse than brand dependent, as usual with this niche hobby, absolutely zero, nada, no instructions! So until the beginner knows how and why and what to set gain and exposure to, and if or how they should adjust color, and if they can stack or not, heck even understanding what button they should press to begin the whole evening .... they are totally and absolutely lost! They have no idea what to do. If your team made similar software BUT could activate a workflow window for them it could easily guide them right through the process easily. I worked for a company implementing SAP enterprise resource management software and it had a similar pop-up help window active all the time (in our companies implementation). It resulted in heaps better uptake and correct use and heaps faster learning curve than the many organisations who we visited who did not have such online workflow already documented and implemented.
So, watched the video. A bit confusing to begin with till realise we're looking at the python (?) interface, then it looks nice, bit hard to pick out the details in following the mouse around with the red/night-vision engaged tho. Couldn't really make out what processing you had functioning at the time; saw the areas for RGB and other (stretch?) but not easy to see what/where they were at. Great looking stars tho! What was the equipment used? Camera settings? The images were coming in pretty fast.
So it disregards any existing images in the nominated folder? No worry then about starting sequence re camera then ALS or ALS then camera start? Not sure I'm ready to wrestle pythons at this stage of my astro journey, maybe after you have an auto installer? Preferably x.msi or x.exe (for a window junkie anyway.....
Well I hope this doesn't sound like a heavy critisism although as a professional software eng/programmer I'm sure you're more than used to options/features/requests being thrown at you Hope you got through the C19 okay and you and yours are fine.
a tout alhoure ian (did I get that right?)
Hi
Don't worry, this was just a quick'n'dirty preview
We're putting up a more detailed video up.
The images are 4s shots made with a ZWO ASI224MC camera I already had on disk. I just made them arrive into the scan folder every 2s to have a faster demo
If you want to try it out on windows, no need to wrestle with any coding or setup. Just head to als-app.org/nightlies/ and pick a windows version in the last folder in that list.
iannz & howie1 your are absolutely right when asking "why another live stacking software"
The key idea behind this project was to get a simple & easy-to-use software. Able to run in the field on small machines. with the ability to share the resulting image on the network, for public sessions
I'm with you guys on the need to keep it simple and as straightforward as possible. It should not get any more complex at it is now, in terms of image processing and "user involvement"
howie1 : those thoughts about how to guide user towards the best possible result is indeed a great idea and could be very fun to think about and put in place
I have yet to try it out, I intentionally done this to let the guys give it a go and give there feedback,, I'm glad to hear there is an easy install version for Windows,, like most I want an easy interface to operate with a logical work flow,, it as said seems to follow what is out there all ready and,, like the guys say,, what about something different,, the guys seem to like the zwo asiair and pro,, And I have no idea if this may be what they refer toππππ But if they like it,, it will be good software,, and with it being based from the raspberry pi 4 4gb then,, ππ,, some genius could do better π
Watching the video made me even more confused, and to be honest, made me slightly depressed. I really feel left behind when I see all the code stuff scrolling down the frame, I still have no idea what Python is, etc etc.
I can see why beginners give up. I'm seasoned (been doing Video Astronomy for over 10 years and was doing Astrophotography for several years before that) and I honestly feel like giving it all up. What was a simple hobby has become too technical and too complicated. But that could also be my fault for not keeping up. But seriously, I did get a slight case of depression after watching the above video. It made me realise just how far behind I have become. But that is me. Millions of others are happy to get new software.
Cheers, Ken
__________________________________________ Ken James - Snake Valley Australia CAMERAS: Samsung SDC-2000 & SCB-4000, Mallincam Xtreme & Xterminator, 3 different Revolution Imagers, 2 ToUcams, SX-5c, Canon 350d, Canon 450d, Canon 6d, 2 different IMX224's, IMX178, and FLI PL16803. Broadcaster on NSN as 'Ken James' HERE --> www.nightskiesnetwork.com/ MY ASTROPHOTOGRAPHY HERE-->ballaratman.wixsite.com/astrophotos
Watching the video made me even more confused, and to be honest, made me slightly depressed. I really feel left behind when I see all the code stuff scrolling down the frame, I still have no idea what Python is, etc etc.
I can see why beginners give up. I'm seasoned (been doing Video Astronomy for over 10 years and was doing Astrophotography for several years before that) and I honestly feel like giving it all up. What was a simple hobby has become too technical and too complicated. But that could also be my fault for not keeping up. But seriously, I did get a slight case of depression after watching the above video. It made me realise just how far behind I have become. But that is me. Millions of others are happy to get new software.
Don't be depressed
Who cares about Python ... just hide all panes and wander in the image as stacking continues
Hi Guys, I'm one of the team's mate. Sorry, i'm french too, and my english is far to be fluent.
To talk about the very firsts lights of the software itself : The project was born at that time, when what we needed wasn't existing at all... except on windows maybe with sharpcap. Of course, sharpcap is a well known and a good solution. But it runs with windows only.
The first idea was to create a very simple, resilient and strong, light, opensource and free solution, because it wasn't existing yet for what we wanted to do with.
We wanted to run it on mini-machines like raspi, tinkerboard, and others to be nomad.
The other very important point was to be able to share the live stacked image with people during public sessions, threw their smartphone or projected on a large screen, indoor. We also wanted at first, to let the user decide about the solution he wants for all the "capture part". Ekos/kstar is a nice client, working on Rpi, but there are as many uses as there are users.
Asilive is quiet similar to what we wanted to do, but it has been created after ALS, and according user's reviews, results are not very convincing, not to mention it's only working with ZWO cams.
All the AsiAir PRO and co are also nice, but we wanted our open-source solution being more "open"
The first difference is here. it's an "easy-to-use" tool designed for live stacking. Not for a whole and complete images process (like many existing software) or capture scheduler with chart (for now, at least ). Even for people not friend with computers There is an .exe, nothing to install, just double click and the tool starts after few seconds. The server can (of course) be used locally on a separate screen (threw the web browser) for a large screen with public), but of course, for an "hotspot" use, it's necessary to create a rule in the firewall's setting (safety first )
After a long time, and user's feedback, it was time to create a simple executable file (thanks Fred, for this and for all your work, again !) And here we are, enlarging tests to others people sharing the same passion but practicing sometimes differently.
We enjoy your feedback and ideas, and as Fred said before, it's VERY important.
Watching the video made me even more confused, and to be honest, made me slightly depressed. I really feel left behind when I see all the code stuff scrolling down the frame, I still have no idea what Python is, etc etc.
I can see why beginners give up. I'm seasoned (been doing Video Astronomy for over 10 years and was doing Astrophotography for several years before that) and I honestly feel like giving it all up. What was a simple hobby has become too technical and too complicated. But that could also be my fault for not keeping up. But seriously, I did get a slight case of depression after watching the above video. It made me realise just how far behind I have become. But that is me. Millions of others are happy to get new software.
You can easily hide it.
This is just to "see" what"s happening, what's the status of the "back-office's job"
Beginners are actually trying it too since we provide the .exe file.
Here is the short manual :
- Download the .exe.
- Double-click on it
- In the Edit/Preference menu, you can select the path for the folder you want to scan (this folder will be polled for new arriving file). and some other interesting settings
- click start server if you want to share the picture or display it in your web browser (the link appears under the viewing window)
- Then, click start.
- From your capturing solution, just double check than the path will send your pics to the same folder.
- Start your capture. (on the video Fred just tried with existing files, and instead of copy/paste, he launched an automatic script)
Welcome to the forum steffou And thanks for the input,, as said,, it's good to talk to developers and give our feedback on software,, I bought two raspberry pi4 4gb boards, vrs I believe there is a need for a small computer at the scope, Small and cheap,, even better,, I must admit,, I had a hell of lot of help from old stash,,, I would say I'm one for doing things out the box,,, but many times I nearly fired the raspberry pi out the window. I used k stars and ekos,, but was,, in my view more suitable for astrophotography,, the live video side was not as advanced as I would have liked, I also used cdc and ccdciel,, ccdciel I could not get working to my satisfaction.. Planetarium wise,, I could not fault them,, but image capture,, was lacking and I ended up buying the lattepanda,, based on Windows 10,, I got to use cdc, eqmod,, and what I prefer,,, backyard eos,, Now if you guys could produce a image capture piece of software like it,, that could run different cameras,, zwo, ect,, and get it to live stack then fantastic.
The two raspberry pi 4 4gb cost about the same as my basic panda and case. If the Software was decent I would try raspberry pi again.
We opened up a section for astroberry and it hasn't taken off,, no input from developer in a while. But we try and back folk with Hardware / software,, we are a totally independent forum,, no sponsors ect,, we don't want one either,, this way we can stay unbiased towards any product, And if we can work with you guy's in helping promote astronomy,, great,, that's Why we are here.
Welcome to the forum steffou And thanks for the input,, as said,, it's good to talk to developers and give our feedback on software,,
Thanks, just to be fair, i'm not a developer, Fred is... but a contributor, i'm just a user with ideas, a bit geek, zero budget, and deeply involved in testing what very talented devs are making with this project.
By the way, i just want to mention that i love the default avatar of mine on this forum, which remind me an hilarious manga character called SaΓ―tama (if you know)....
I bought two raspberry pi4 4gb boards, vrs I believe there is a need for a small computer at the scope, Small and cheap,, even better,,
Just one is enough.
I must admit,, I had a hell of lot of help from old stash,,, I would say I'm one for doing things out the box,,, but many times I nearly fired the raspberry pi out the window.
That's why some other mates in the team made a tool called NAFAbox, based on scripts to install all classical astro tools (Indi, Kstars/EKOS, siril, stellarium, ocapture, astrometry index, ccdciel, etc...). That's making it a lot easier to prepare.
But buying Stellarmate image is also a simple way.
I used k stars and ekos,, but was,, in my view more suitable for astrophotography,, the live video side was not as advanced as I would have liked,
You are right, that's why we needed a dedicated tool.
Now if you guys could produce a image capture piece of software like it,, that could run different cameras,, zwo, ect,, and get it to live stack then fantastic.
As Fred said, it's important to think very seriously about that. As some other features in the list.
We opened up a section for astroberry and it hasn't taken off,, no input from developer in a while.
My 2cents, but i think it's important to think cross-plateforms
we are a totally independent forum,, no sponsors ect,, we don't want one either,, this way we can stay unbiased towards any product,
Very important, and wise
And if we can work with you guy's in helping promote astronomy,, great,, that's Why we are here.
That's what i'll do with this project with my club. Using it for public sessions to "show" the eye's limits, and share our passion with the next generation, stucked on their phone... you see?? that guy trying to take a picture with his smartphone threw the eyepiece, to pick a "souvenir" from that night . With the sharing server, people could just take a screenshot directly on the phone.
Okay, downloaded, clicked the exe, bypassed/ok'd the W10 warnings and waited, waite..., Aha! Nice, so that was easy as I thought, good one guys. Hmm, bit bloody dark to make out whats what on screen.
1/ pick a different or brighter display output, too dark on dark for my old(er) eyes to make out the details. Had to really concentrate to select elements on-screen. 2/ the preferences box/icon to select to access the Preferences options could be a bit larger, for reasons in (1).
Otherwise at this stage all was good. Fiddled with the Preference/Scan-Folder and then copied images in one at a time to see the resulting build up of an image in ALS. Cool. I was able to start the server and browse to it after noticing the address displayed in the inspection window in ALS. Thats not very stunningly obvious and would suggest making it a output display in the 'Server' area of ALS? Not everyone is going to think of scrolling back in the inspection box to find it, if they would even think it would be there anyway....
So this was done after (a late) breakfast and I would of done more maybe but the power was cut..... Meh.
Over all I thought it was pretty painless and can see it would be a GREAT tool for clubs and outreach particularly.
Good work guys. Have to say too, your english (both of you) is nothing to be apologetic about. Although Fred's sounds like a have, sure you're not a mis-placed Brit Fred? Or maybe you're from Brittany....