Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2014 20:46:11 GMT
Well gang thank for for all the info and the welcoming but here's a twist to the situation. I normally check classifieds and such but, today I found a deal I couldn't refuse and pulled the trigger on a MC hypercam. I know I know I wanted to start to "crawl before I walked" as I stated before in my first posting asking about the Sammy but with the price and the information I couldn't refuse because everything that goes with it is all there so we'll see but again thank you for the information maybe I dug a little deep into the hole but I've always have a way of digging myself out of it. I'm sure starting out with the easier targets like planets are a good way to start and move on only time will tell...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2014 22:03:38 GMT
Well gang thank for for all the info and the welcoming but here's a twist to the situation. I normally check classifieds and such but, today I found a deal I couldn't refuse and pulled the trigger on a MC hypercam. I know I know I wanted to start to "crawl before I walked" as I stated before in my first posting asking about the Sammy but with the price and the information I couldn't refuse because everything that goes with it is all there so we'll see but again thank you for the information maybe I dug a little deep into the hole but I've always have a way of digging myself out of it. I'm sure starting out with the easier targets like planets are a good way to start and move on only time will tell... Nice one John that should be a very nice cam congratulations
|
|
|
Post by davy on May 22, 2014 22:19:47 GMT
Hi john. .you would not be disappointed by any of the recommendations by the guys you give them a budget and what your preferences would be for it..and the mallincam is highly regarded camera by a lot of video astronomers you wont be disappointed and will get tons of info in here about them..jealous as anything
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Man on May 23, 2014 13:10:37 GMT
G'day John. Great start.
Do you mean a Mallincam Hyperplus?
If so, which one did you get? The HyperPlus B&W, the HyperPlus Colour?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 13:31:57 GMT
Good stuff mate looking forward to seeing it in action!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 13:40:16 GMT
Ken it is a color and yes its a plus.. Sorry about that still learning the different models
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Man on May 23, 2014 14:58:46 GMT
Ken it is a color and yes its a plus.. Sorry about that still learning the different models Excellent John. You do realise that you will get 'Integration Fever' and want to go longer than 56 seconds soon
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 17:41:46 GMT
Well I think 56 seconds is a good starting point for now at least I can capture a lot of objects because the universe is endless with possibilities
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 18:42:32 GMT
The question that always puzzles me, is what is the difference between stacking 4images at 56secs with miloslick, or taking one image at 3mins 44secs. I kinda feel that stacking the shorter frames will give a cleaner image at the end, but I may be wrong. Either way John, you have a decent cam and should get some decent results. May the force be with you.
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Man on May 24, 2014 12:23:30 GMT
Allan, a single integration of 3 mins 44 secs would blow out. It would end up just being a white screen.
Stacking is for cleaning up noise and detail in the incoming view while still in Live/semi-live mode, so by stacking even just 3 short integrations gives a much more pleasing view of the object.
The way Miloslick stacks is that you don't have to wait for each stack of 3 (or more) to come through each time. There is a setting that makes it a rolling stack. That means as it takes one integration it is added to the end of the stack and the first one drops off, so there is always a stack of 3 or more but showing at every few seconds (or however long the integration is set at.
After the first stack has come through, it ends up like normal viewing without stacking, but with much better quality.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 15:33:30 GMT
Ah cheers Ken that kinda makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Man on May 25, 2014 8:03:18 GMT
Ah cheers Ken that kinda makes sense. Think of a Tank Track. As the Tank drives along, there are something like 10 segments of track on the ground at any time (imagine these as the integration frames - stack of say '10'). As it moves along a new segment at the front of the Tank Track rolls around and touches the ground (joins the stack) as the one at the back lifts off the ground (leaves the stack) . . . continuously. This way there is always a stack of 10 Track segments sitting still on the ground but one old one being replaced by a new one constantly as it goes along.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 10:35:00 GMT
Thats a fine analogy Ken, I'll remember that one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 13:14:10 GMT
I must admit I've not really put much effort into the stacking side of things. I have tried loads of times... but got mixed results. Lately I've just gone for single long frames. I found stacking in miloslick didn't really deal with field rotation well. I can't explain it as it makes no sense... but a while ago when i tried doing 3 stacks of 15 secs v's one 45 sec. The 45 sec was clearer had no rotation and more detail over the 3 15 secs that were smudged with less detail. This was on m82. Im sure i did get some decent results stacking on m42... but I'm thinking is that because its so bright that exposure length is capped to short frames that have the max amount of detail before blowing out? Meaning field rotation isn't an issue. So what I'm thinking is…does stacking not only help once you have the max amount of detail possible?? I.e would ten 1 sec exposures really pull out the same amount of detail as one 10 sec exposure of m42 for example? I would bet you would see more structure in the 10 sec. But as i said I've not put any time into finding out what works best for me. So theres a high chance I'm just not doing it right
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Man on May 25, 2014 15:04:56 GMT
You are partly correct Chris, in that 10 x 1 second frames stacked on top of each other won't show as much as a 10 second frame IF they are not summed. Stacking comes in 2 methods. Miloslick allows for 'Averaging' or 'Summing' a stack. Both help with Dynamic Range. 'Averaging' shows a noise-reduced more detailed stack. It stacks frames on top of each other to clean up noise and show more detail, but remains the similar brightness. 'Summing' shows a brighter image. It multiplies the frames. A 3 stack is 3 times brighter than a single frame. Here are 2 photos of the difference.- In the first photo I use a stack of 2 frames of myself using 'Average'. It makes the image of me more detailed. Use this to clean up noise and show finer detail. In this mode you can stack up to 10 frames with integrations as long as you want, but the brightness will not increase greatly when detail does. Good for super-fine detail in Galaxy arms etc. Average: More detail and less noise
- In the second photo I use a stack of 2 frames of myself using 'Sum' which doubles the brightness. Use this to get brighter views using shorter integrations, or on very very faint objects. You can stack up to 10 frames of very short integrations for times when longer integrations will show too much Light Pollution or hot pixels. Sum: Same detail but multiplied brightness
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 16:28:12 GMT
Great explanation Ken! Another bit of knowledge I will lock in the old brain However summing appears to be more painful in the second image..
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Man on May 26, 2014 12:33:22 GMT
Great explanation Ken! Another bit of knowledge I will lock in the old brain However summing appears to be more painful in the second image.. Yep, beware of Summing! See what it did to me
|
|
|
Post by Rick in NWArk on May 27, 2014 1:36:42 GMT
Great example, thanks Ken!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 10:53:04 GMT
Thanks Ken! I gave stacking a play about with last night. Got some pretty good results actually! Some of the time it does show a little star trails. But last night i was able to stack things pretty well. I was able to stack 3 x 80 sec frames (in Alt/Az mode). Yes there was some star trails now and again. But overall most looked fine. Results were decent! Like you say it helps so much with noise! Makes it much smoother to look at. I was even stacking 5 x 30 sec frames no prob at all. It really came into play when looking at M101... just a single 45 sec frame showed next to nothing...it was just so faint... But stacking 3 frames gave it much more structure etc. Still looked poor but better than the single frame Ken / Anyone who knows... The option in Miloslick 'Correct rotational errors'... How can this be activated? Or is this feature not included yet?? As its always just a grey check box that cant be selected.
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Man on May 27, 2014 13:47:10 GMT
Chris, as far as I know, the 'Correct Rotational Errors' is a future feature that is being worked on. Will be great fro Alt/Az mount usres when it gets activated. Also, I usually tick the box for Translational errors. It fixes any jumps or blips between stacked frames and also helps make it smoother.
|
|