iannz
Member
Posts: 71
home town/country: Tarurutangi, NZ
time zone gmt +/-: +12
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Post by iannz on Mar 30, 2020 22:16:37 GMT
Hi there, new to this, obviously. Somewhat bewitched by the declared FPS rates of full res/23fps output I'm struggling with a usable image of any light point-source at 2fps at most..... Needless to say, nor am I getting any of the loverly nebula colors (or any nebula) and wondering if I've a dud. (Or I'm a dud....).
Of course I'm attempting this at less than 1 minute exposure of Jupiter (last nite) lets say and while Jupiter and moons are visible (on screen) there is no color/banding nor stars to speak of. Dismaying. I suppose more seconds are needed but I had thought something would be usable.
Also, the gain and offsets are nothing like recommended levels to begin with (G 120, Ost 50), I'm more like G300, Ost 80 and then the histo is not much to look at I suspect (not being too sure of what to expect in the first place).
The web although offering a lot of advice is not apparently immediately transferable to my chosen camera, mostly all are 163mono, I've yet to find a complete explanation of beginnings for the color or any version.
Here is a single Tiff, I don't know if its much use for advice tho.... Oh, and settings Another thing, it has a GPS in it? Anyway, when turning it on or off it appears to enable more sensitivity, briefly then back to not very much.
All commentary appreciated (nice to be noticed after all ). cheers ian
[QHY163C] Debayer Preview=On Output Format=FITS files (*.fits) Binning=2x2 Capture Area=4656x3522 Colour Space=RAW16 Pan=0 Tilt=0 Force Still Mode=Off Enable Live Broadcast=Off Use DDR Buffer=Off USB Traffic=0 Offset=79 Amp Noise Reduction=Off Frame Rate Limit=Maximum Gain=97 Exposure=736.704528998696 Calibration End Pos Adjust=55257137 Calibration Start Pos Adjust=6301 GPS Calibration LED=Off GPS Freq Stabilization=Off GPS=Off Timestamp Frames=Off White Bal (B)=64 White Bal (G)=64 White Bal (R)=64 Contrast=0 Brightness=0 Gamma=1 Temperature=-6.1 Target Temperature=-6 Cooler Power=41(Auto) Banding Threshold=35 Banding Suppression=0 Apply Flat=None Subtract Dark=None #Black Point Display Black Point=0 #MidTone Point Display MidTone Point=0.167554194651108 #White Point Display White Point=0.992063492063492 TimeStamp=2020-03-30T17:43:46.6370167Z SharpCapVersion=3.2.6248.0
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iannz
Member
Posts: 71
home town/country: Tarurutangi, NZ
time zone gmt +/-: +12
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Post by iannz on Mar 30, 2020 22:18:37 GMT
Huh, I see in this one I'd turned down the gain, or started low at first, whatever. And the GPS off.
duh
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Post by Dragon Man on Mar 31, 2020 8:33:25 GMT
Ian, the trick to planetary imaging is to use very very VERY short exposures (Fast Frame Rate). If you drop your exposure time down to 1/100th of a second you should start seeing the banding on Jupiter and Saturn, the landscape of Mars, etc. It's the same as doing the Moon, except the Moon often needs to go down to 1/500th of a second. Record about 10 seconds of Video at the fast frame rate and them stack it in a program like Registax. It is extremely rare to get Jupiter's banding AND the Galilean Moons at the same time, so if the Moons disappear don't worry, It's normal You can cheat a little too, like I did for one of my images. I imaged Jupiter at around 1/700th of a second, stacked in Registax, then imaged the Moons at 1 second and stacked them too. Then added the good Jupiter to the good Moons in PhotoShop to get the impossible photo. Here it is:
Here's a video I made as an example of the IMX224 on Jupiter, the Moon, and Saturn to show you what you should see at fast frame rates:
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Post by Dragon Man on Mar 31, 2020 13:02:57 GMT
Just a few more thoughts Ian. I just re-read your post and notice you don't say what scope you were using. That could make a huge difference. Fast or slow scope? Large or small aperture? Barlow? Focal Reducer? Some scope/camera combinations struggle to do planetary imaging, some love it. This particular camera (163) isn't really suited to Planetary imaging, but it can be done. Lower resolution cameras with faster frame rates are much more suitable. Even a humble low quality webcam
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iannz
Member
Posts: 71
home town/country: Tarurutangi, NZ
time zone gmt +/-: +12
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Post by iannz on Mar 31, 2020 21:56:24 GMT
Hi Ken and thanks for the input! I am using (at the mo) a C8se w/6.3 reduce/corrector.
I have a ED80 but not started with it yet.....
Both are new to me along with the 163c and am still getting to grips with it all. I have a general/hobby knowledge of photog/film but of long ago and not entirely up with the astro way of digital thinking. Hmm, so a 100th/sec; that would be 1000uS? (bear of small brain here) cheers
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 1, 2020 10:26:24 GMT
Ian, you've confused me What does 1000uS mean? As for your scope: For starters, take off the 6.3 Focal Reducer. Planets need the opposite. They need a Barlow not a Reducer. The ED80 would be great for planetary work, but still with a Barlow. What is the lowest Exposure your camera can achieve?
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iannz
Member
Posts: 71
home town/country: Tarurutangi, NZ
time zone gmt +/-: +12
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Post by iannz on Apr 2, 2020 4:00:32 GMT
Ok my problem. Was thinking its in microseconds but its in milleseconds..... duh anyway things were quiet last nite so out with the gear and tried 5s on Orian and stuff. All looks a lot better on screen but now finding I probably need more memory to stack moon images etc. Had also looked at the moon with the 163 and 5LII, also with barlows. Understand the thinking re reducer however being lazy I'm leaving it on as I wheel about the heavans at this point, concentrating more on understanding the relationships of exposure/gain/offset and what I see on screen with the resulting histogram. Bit much to take in for sure. Used the starting point gain/offset values at the 5s for Orion and certainly got more nebula than previously so that was a ego boost. Thank god after the dollars spent...... Least time/exposure is 0.001ms for the 163c. Need to develop a better understanding of the histogram and what it's telling me. Plus not expecting to instantly see every detail of the heavens at 20fps....
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 2, 2020 8:55:14 GMT
Ok my problem. Was thinking its in microseconds but its in milleseconds..... duh anyway things were quiet last nite so out with the gear and tried 5s on Orian and stuff. All looks a lot better on screen but now finding I probably need more memory to stack moon images etc. Had also looked at the moon with the 163 and 5LII, also with barlows. Understand the thinking re reducer however being lazy I'm leaving it on as I wheel about the heavans at this point, concentrating more on understanding the relationships of exposure/gain/offset and what I see on screen with the resulting histogram. Bit much to take in for sure. Used the starting point gain/offset values at the 5s for Orion and certainly got more nebula than previously so that was a ego boost. Thank god after the dollars spent...... Least time/exposure is 0.001ms for the 163c. Need to develop a better understanding of the histogram and what it's telling me. Plus not expecting to instantly see every detail of the heavens at 20fps.... 0.001 Milliseconds equals 1 Microsecond. A millisecond is one thousandth of a second so to get 1/1000th of a second (good approximate exposure time for the Moon) you need to set the camera to 1 millisecond I can understand the laziness about not exchanging Focal Reducer for a Barlow and Extension tube (probably needed if using a Barlow) just when you get things working right and want to zoom around the sky and look at DSO's I'm the same The less fiddling, the better
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Post by howie1 on Apr 3, 2020 13:24:17 GMT
Need to develop a better understanding of the histogram and what it's telling me. Ian, just go to the forums home page and navigate down to Beginners Guides, Getting Started and General Help and you'll see I posted up link to a 30 minute video titled Guide to using SharpCap just recently. In it I tell you what the histogram is showing you and how to use it.
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