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Post by metro on Jan 11, 2019 7:12:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 7:31:12 GMT
Metro Get the 224($249) for a beginner. I am not a fan of the 287. Ken James got a lot more from the 287 than I could. Cheers Paul
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Post by Dragon Man on Jan 11, 2019 15:47:48 GMT
Personally I would have to agree with Paul. Start with the 224. It's a good camera. I use 2 of them. Better resolution and simple to use. I can almost guarantee that you wouldn't be happy with the blocky pixelated look of the 287. The 287 Mono is pretty good but as its name implies, it's Mono. The colour version gives results like an old security camera. Yes it's faster, but the results aren't as nice. 224 gets my vote
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Post by metro on Jan 11, 2019 22:17:12 GMT
OK guys, any other cameras I should be considering in the 2-300 dollar range? Right now I'm leaning towards the Revolution IMX224 unit but I am still studying and learning the new mount so I have a bit more time to research.
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Post by Dragon Man on Jan 12, 2019 5:05:13 GMT
I don't have any other recommendations in that price bracket. It is fairly cheap, it is simple to use, it gives great results. I am currently also using another camera at the moment (IMX178) which gives almost DSLR quality results, BUT . . . very slow exposure times. I have both cameras inserted into 2 scopes and use both at the same time, just switching back and forth between them. The 224 gives a quick pleasing view and the 178 gives a detailed image . . . after waiting for it LOL! Stick with the 224.
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Post by metro on Jan 12, 2019 12:47:34 GMT
OK, I think at this point the next question is, who to buy from? Is there a sponsor here? I remember seeing some of Kens posts referring to OC Telescopes. I want to support a vendor that supports the page.
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Post by Dragon Man on Jan 12, 2019 16:23:32 GMT
No metro, we don't have any site sponsors, and we like it that way. It prevents bias, we don't have to be falsely loyal to a particular brand, and we like to try and support everyone, not just companies that support us.
But . . Revolution (OC Telescopes) does sell the whole kit whereas Rising Tech, Altair, ZWO etc only sell the camera on its own leaving you to purchase all the other necessities. The kit helps for your first purchase if you don't already have a Focal Reducer, IR filter etc.
There are no particular loyalties towards Mike at OC Telescope, he just has a good deal in the kit. If you were to buy just the camera alone I would recommend Rising Tech (but a lot of people won't use AliExpress).
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Post by davy on Jan 12, 2019 20:49:22 GMT
Camera wise it's always a tough choice and a hard one to give advice on what is good or bad ,, like a scope and mount it really depends on what you want image. I have a few analogue camera's, Samsung, watec, Digital Qhy5lii colour Zwo asi178 colour
To be honest I'm pretty happy with a DSLR for my needs.. Linked with backyard eos it works fine for me,, easy to use and decent enough for what I image,, the moon.. Would I buy another dedicated astronomy camera,, very easy answer for me is no. I have camera's that have sat idle a long time due to poor weather and at £350 for a asi 178 it annoys the life out of me..
But what I have looked at and found to be a logical step for me is Skywatcher evostar 72ed And a full frame canon DSLR. Wow, the scope is small and fairly fast ,but the fov is amazing and if you added a 0.85 skywatcher reducer/flatner for deep sky wide field I think it is my next route. I got carol a canon 4000d for Christmas,, it has built in wifi,, it can send images to a smartphone,tablet or computer,, link it to astrotoaster and it would be a nice cheap set up.
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Post by ChrisV on Jan 13, 2019 21:54:12 GMT
Agree with above. The 224 - and looks like a good deal on the link. As Ken says the 287 images might not look as good = blocky with the larger pixels
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Post by davy on Jan 14, 2019 0:20:24 GMT
I fancied the zwo asi183 ,but at £500+ I would need to be getting at least a couple of good night's a week in the scope to justify it,,
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Post by metro on Jan 14, 2019 22:59:15 GMT
So in the description of the 224 it says "Long Exposure Capabilities". Does this mean that this camera is basically also able to do short exposure astrophotography?
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Post by howie1 on Jan 15, 2019 0:24:59 GMT
Yes, they all do long exposure too. The term Video Astronomy is not strictly true ... a 'proper' video camera is taking a bunch of still frames at speeds like 22, 30 or 60 frames in every second. When you see many thousands of still frames played back at the same 22, 30 or 60 fps, your eye see's it as moving video. Even a movie at at movie theatre is a standard of 22 fps. Ie 22 still frames per second. When you see 22 still frames in one second the eye see's it as 'live' moving images. So all astro cameras have the fps made fully adjustable. Set it real fast and you can make streaming / live video of planets or anything really bright. You will in effect see it "live" as if you were looking through an eyepiece of a telescope. Or set the fps so s-l-o-w that each frame is taking anything you like up to and maybe beyond 5 minutes per frame! Here's a link to a fellow EEA 224 album. Yes, its a 224 sensored camera the same as used in the RI R2 IMX224 camera kit. It is actually a ZWO ASI224. But, rather than use high gain and short exposure time for an almost 'live' looking through the EP (Eyepiece) experience, he takes long exposures, and also applies darks and flats and uses Sharpcap and/or Astrotoaster out in the dark for a very detailed AP (astrophotographic) 'view'. He waits 5 or even more minutes before he accepts the image as being ok (some EEA'ersd on't accept their images until 20, 30 and even 60 minutes! Those folk basically practise 'live' astrophotography out there in the dark). I prefer short waiting times. In the links photo's look for the name he puts in each photo ... EG M63_Stack_20_600sec ... Ie Object M63 made from 20 frames from the camera for a total exposure time stacked of 600 secs. Do the math and you will see he was using 30 second frames ... and 20 of them ... which were stacked live using SharpCap to create that image. www.flickr.com/photos/23705399@N04/albums/72157656927157919
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Post by Dragon Man on Jan 15, 2019 12:30:21 GMT
Metro, sort of ignore the term 'Video' in Video Astronomy. It doesn't mean what people think it means, and that's where the confusion starts. Although you can use a 'Video' camera, none of us really do. We use any camera we want. The term 'Video Astronomy' is the method we use, the branch of Astronomy, not the equipment we use. We use a camera to see a near-live or short exposure image on a screen, just like watching a security TV monitor. It's what we used to call 'Closed Circuit' or CCTV. Some people get really hung up about the term 'Video Astronomy' insisting that it is incorrect because 'they' don't use a Video camera. But it's not about the camera, it's about the method used. Same as we use the term 'Visual' Astronomy, not 'Plossl' Astronomy, or 'Orthoscopic' Astronomy, or 'Glass in a little tube' Astronomy. It's a method. Not an equipment description.
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Post by metro on Jan 15, 2019 21:31:16 GMT
Well, it looks like I'm gonna pull the trigger on the Revolution Advanced 224 kit, probably today. Does anyone know what the exposure limit is on this? I hate to dwell on that but I am kinda interested in eventually pushing the imaging more towards the AP aspect all while still trying to keep things on the simple side ie.. not over processing or guiding. That's another thing, I think I remember reading something about being about to use this camera for guiding if I do decide to push towards AP in the future, is this true?
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Post by Dragon Man on Jan 16, 2019 6:20:47 GMT
The 224 exposure time is limited only by the amount of numbers you can type into the software. I use the included ToupSky/RisingSky software and you can set any exposure time you want from 1 microsecond (1µs or 10,000 of a second) right up to to 9999 seconds (2.7775 hours).
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Post by howie1 on Jan 16, 2019 13:17:58 GMT
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Post by metro on Jan 17, 2019 2:38:28 GMT
Well, The kit has been ordered and hopefully on the way tomorrow.
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Post by metro on Jan 23, 2019 3:49:29 GMT
Well it's here and the m*+her f*@kin clouds are thick!
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Post by ChrisV on Jan 23, 2019 5:12:19 GMT
It'll be super fast so you can sneak between the clouds. I couldn't recommend for APing DSOs but its a great planetary camera
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Post by metro on Jan 23, 2019 10:26:47 GMT
Also, there are no instructions or manual shipped with it and all the info on their site is for the R2. Any helpful info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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