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Post by howie1 on Apr 14, 2018 1:31:10 GMT
Sorry, turn away now if you are only interested in VA / short exposure stuff. I do normally do single frame 30 sec EAA and VA on the big planets, but for the moment I am trying to head towards AP. So as I have hardly ever stacked RAW files, I've been getting into it and at the same time I tested the new 64bit DSS. I used Astrotoaster 2.05c over two clearish nights (last night was totally overcast by 10:30pm!) and found the new 64 bit version is about 30% faster than the old 32 bit version when it comes to stacking - a result of it using the new 64bit version of DSS. All shots in the link below to the Flickr album of shots taken on the two nights were at either iso800 or iso1600 for stacks of nine 60 second unguided frames. And RAW rather my usual jpg. All shots are approx 1Mp jpeg screengrabs and not the actual 20Mp tiff files. But still show the great "views" out in the dark "observing" ... although it's not really EAA in my books cos its after a 12 minute or so wait. But heck they're teaching me about shooting RAW, stacking, color adjustments ... and patience (LOL!). The old version of DSS meant 9 x 60secs took nearly 16 minutes for AT/DSS(32bit) to present the final image. The new 64 bit version keeps up with the 60 second frames right up to 7 stacked from 7 taken (so only 7'ish minutes to that point) but then for some reason sits on 7 stacked from 9 taken for another 3 or 4 minutes before finally finishing around the 12 minute mark. But anyway it is what it is and 12 minutes is better than 16 or more as the pc memory clogs up over the night. Link to all the shots over two nights below.... no real faint fuzzy's except the Markarian chain shot. It was dark at mag 22 skies. Uncooled modded EOS 650d, unguided HEQ5 PRO, Skywatcher 200p f/5, EOS Utilities + Astrotoaster 2.05c (pointed to DSS 64bit). flic.kr/s/aHsm9Ld4SC
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Post by davy on Apr 14, 2018 7:06:13 GMT
Great you are enjoying yourself, I would rather hear how your journey is going in astronomy than hear you left the group or hobby,, it's a journey and I've been on it and so has ken and others,,
What is the difference between astrophotography and video astronomy these day's,. Simple,, it's time The camera's are pretty much the same ,,the equipment is for shure,, mounts,, scopes,, filters ect,,, Techniques are crossing over and video and AP are both using short subs stacked,,. But it comes down to time,,
Using a video camera we can stack frames of short exposure to give us an image to keep,, not much different to AP,,, only difference is we look at a live or near live image on a screen where in AP most look at a blank screen,, during exposure or integration,,
As I said,,in my opinion,,,not much in it now,, And this is what my conclusion is with my journey,, I started in AP and the problem me doing it is the weather,, How long I kept my shutter open was down to how long I had clear skies,,. In particular ,, cloud cover
Getting fed up with,, the then way if doing AP taking five minute subs standing in the cold staring at a camera timer and then looking at the data when the exposure was completed and finding a plane or bird,, even satellite has ruined the shot.. So I went to video taking thousands of frames in five minutes instead if one capture and getting a live view at same time,, And I got hooked by this,, I actually had more useful data this way,, it only came down to quality of the individual frames,,,but we moved into the digital age from analogue and this is where EAA was born I'd say,, the merging of video and AP equipment and techniques,, My journey has taken me the full circle and personally I do both,,
I want totally live views,,I want to look at stars ect instantly but want better quality images for prosperity. Think it now comes down as EAA in a way😂
My rigs are definitely a combo of AP and video ,the live view can be looked at as a tracking image for setting up for ap if you look at it one way.. I just look at as doing it my way..
My plan is simple ,,now,, a bit of clarity at last for me.
I want to get fast live images from my zwo and a fast camera lens,, the live view is recorded so I'm doing, live video astronomy,, I get the data I stack it, process it,, I'm now crossing into AP as I have an image,, great job done , but it's not for me now as I will also have dslr camera working as well doing longer exposure and using other equipment such as narrowband filters,, Yeah I could do all this as one on video but it means getting more expensive camera like a cooled zwo 1600 or other £1000+ camera,, me I'm going the poor man's route.. All comes down to time and money gentlemen ,, in my humble opinion lol 😂😀😂
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Post by davy on Apr 14, 2018 7:47:44 GMT
So how does the way I do my astronomy affect the VAF,, it doesn't ,do I want it to change,, no,,,there is no need for change,,, VAF is the journey,, it shows our origin started in analogue and moving to digital age,, it shows the techniques used then and now,, are we more EAA now,,,who knows and really who cares,, it's a hobby ,, it's about being somewhere you feel at home in doing your hobby,, a friendly place to go and show your work and help others.
Personally I would have liked to have seen us with our own broadcast side,, I miss the night sky network side of things,, getting live video,, can't beat it in my opinion.
So where am I in the hobby lol,,,,, way out there doing my thing ..my way,, never done it easy ,,my ideas have been a bit strange and crazy at times,, just searching for my way of doing it,, I've spent more time on equipment and ideas than full blown astronomy,, because I've had a troubled soul,, Do I do astrophotography or video,, in the hobby there has always been a line drawn in the sand,, one or the other,,,you can't do both or be good at both or be credible doing both,, your either one or the other,, I imagine folk saying.
CRAP,, you can do it all as astronomers,, Using the latest technology and techniques we can do visual, video and astrophotography. And this is what I'm doing and don't give a monkeys to what folk think.. End of day it's about advancement of the hobby.
So yip spent a shit load of money on stuff I will or won't use again, lol,, who hasn't. I've went in every direction in video astronomy,, well apart from worshipping the sun wae a scope.
Small mounts, cheap mounts,big mounts. Analogue,digital cameras.
So where am I now, Well got the skywatcher star adventurer and waiting on some more kit coming,, all about improving and adapting in my view , Looking at getting set up quickly with a small but powerful set up,, I'm going to try and get dslr on it with a fast lens rigged to byeos and astrotoaster,, and get the zwo 178 with a fast camera lens doing video,, This is a starting point for me and want to build on it.all going well Next is changing to bigger rig,,heq5 with a scope , filter wheel, narrowband filters and dslr control via my pc stick set up and still using zwo camera lens for video. Just now working on getting camfi WiFi control sending images to astrotoaster to cut down on a portable set up,,
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 14, 2018 14:19:34 GMT
Link doesn't work for me Howie. Plus, I was an AP person, and still like it. I just prefer not to do it any more because it is very time consuming and hard to share the view/image with visitors to our observatory. I have nothing against it. Go for it mate
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Post by ChrisV on Apr 15, 2018 14:10:29 GMT
Really lovely shots howie. Still video and not AP to me. 12 min is nothing to what I've seen on some broadcasts. Are you doing flats with those? If not, it would be great to see it as it really helps being out detail.
The new dss is way fast. I've used it for some AP stuff. Will have to try it with astrotoaster now that I can see you've done it. I probably do more AP now. I'm a bit time poor now so can just set up the scope on autopilot and let it run all night. I try and do live viewing when I occasionally get out to viewing nights with the local society. That's easier now I've built a more portable mount.
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Post by howie1 on Apr 16, 2018 1:26:59 GMT
I've had that issue with the flickr album link before Ken. Apologies but I still have no idea why it doesnt work. How about this link? flic.kr/s/aHsm9Ld4SC
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Post by howie1 on Apr 16, 2018 2:18:09 GMT
Really lovely shots howie. Still video and not AP to me. 12 min is nothing to what I've seen on some broadcasts. Are you doing flats with those? If not, it would be great to see it as it really helps being out detail. The new dss is way fast. I've used it for some AP stuff. Will have to try it with astrotoaster now that I can see you've done it. I probably do more AP now. I'm a bit time poor now so can just set up the scope on autopilot and let it run all night. I try and do live viewing when I occasionally get out to viewing nights with the local society. That's easier now I've built a more portable mount. Thanks Chris. No flats just the AT lens gradient set to around 30-35'ish. Re 12mins still pretty fast .... Last night I went out and watched a mate (AP'er) for guiding and mon LRGB imaging experience to see how the pro's do it. Anyhow, he has a new Asus highend laptop. About 3 hours later (LOL!) what got me was he dragged and dropped all the frames into DSS 64 and it stacked the lot (the 10 x 2min L's, the 10 x 5min R's and G's and B's) each in about 10 seconds! Super fast! Doing it on my old clunker of a laptop and using that LRoom technique I've done, it was twice as fast as AT/DSS but it still took about 30 secs to stack each and every frame. I really need a faster laptop methinks! But, again, thanks for the compliment Chris ... yeah 12 mins is still good images. My mate has said several times to me he liked the idea of EAA for something to do while his main rig was imaging. So after he'd got his AP frames, it was my turn to show him stuff. He slapped his color asi290 targeting the bug nebula. First time he has ever used SC. Had no idea how to use it. I showed him the basics and the most important thing of single frame has to be good enough (via using the main viewer window histogram and gain/exp controls), and when single is ok you start stacking. Which he duly did. Then I showed him the stacking options to use and the histogram for the stack. Literally in the time it took me to write this paragraph in AVForum he went "Oh thanks I get it" .... and boom! Put me to shame ... he just went move this slider then that and that and that and boom .... he'd pulled the bug in the best detail I've seen. 15 sec frames at gain of 300, let it run 2 or 3 minutes. So complimentary it seems ... me starting out EAA super fast but noisy heading towards AP, and he starting out AP and fantastic details now heading towards EAA for something to do while imaging the main AP object. Sweet couple of nights out IMO!!! LOL.
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Post by ChrisV on Apr 16, 2018 3:29:01 GMT
Sounds great. I've got nobody here like that. The newer version of sharpcap is even easier. Yes the new DSS is super fast. It took me a few minutes to stack a few hundred subs (on a really fast desktop computer). I don't think I'd use it for AP as pixinsight has really nice features to clean up an image for stacking. But for astrotoaster its brilliant.
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Post by howie1 on Apr 16, 2018 13:26:54 GMT
Some of the screengrabs from last nights session. Posted the same stuff on the CN sticky photo thread (if you think you've seen them before somewhere!). Screengrabs of Astrotoaster settings and viewer window. Nine 60 second iso1600 (and one iso3200) frames from modded EOS650d. HEQ5 PRO. SW 200p f/5 Newtonian. Unguided. Only lights, no darks etc. Mag18 skies helps! LOL. NGC3324 is an open cluster located just a tad NorthWest of the Carina Nebula in the Southern Hemisphere. Upon shooting a 'framing' shot I noticed lots of nebulosity which is (on researching) IC2599. Interesting that when shooting RAW, where I have to adjust the RGB sliders to counter the lack of IR filter in the modded Canon, when the color balance looks "right", I often see lots of brown stuff in amongst the nebulosity.. I've read that this is actually dust. But who knows, after just a few nights shooting RAW it's most likely my lack of skill in adjusting the color balance. LOL. (When I shoot jpeg the custom white balance would automatically apply to the jpeg images). M66 / Leo Triplet. NGC4038 Antennae Galaxies. Using the DSLR on a 1000mm OTA makes these a small object in a wide FOV hence zoomed in the Astrotoaster viewer window image ("+" button on the adjustments window). Unfotunately the screengrab didnt grab the faint wisp of the antennae. Admittedly I struggled to get them to show even to eyeballs looking at the screen in the dark. But they did show! [Edit - actually if you click on the image to make it expand to full screen / see the actual file on imagepost, you can actually see (just) the wisps of stars ejected/left behind as the two galaxies collide - sweeeet!) NGC6334 / Cats Paw Nebula. IC4628 / Prawn Nebula and at top left of viewer window NGC6242 a nice little open cluster.
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 16, 2018 13:53:40 GMT
I've had that issue with the flickr album link before Ken. Apologies but I still have no idea why it doesnt work. How about this link? flic.kr/s/aHsm9Ld4SCYep, that one works thanks Howie. Top pics mate Many of mine are on You Tube backed with music to help set the mood
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Post by howie1 on Apr 18, 2018 1:24:35 GMT
Love B90 Ken! I mean all your shots are great but B90 is interesting and something I've never heard of and now something I must go 'see' (using EAA of course). Cheers
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Post by ChrisV on Apr 18, 2018 8:34:22 GMT
You've pulled out the Gabriela Mistral neb really well Howie. Not easy - that was my first AP target!
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 18, 2018 12:55:15 GMT
Love B90 Ken! I mean all your shots are great but B90 is interesting and something I've never heard of and now something I must go 'see' (using EAA of course). Cheers Thanks Howie. Yeah, I have an interest in Dark Nebula, Coalsack, Horsehead and Cone Nebulas are the most known but there's plenty of others that are far more interesting like the Snake in Ophiuchus, the Dark Doodad in Musca, the Filaments in Trifid, etc. The whole Emu through the Milky Way
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Post by howie1 on Apr 18, 2018 22:56:43 GMT
Enough there to make an album ... and also piqued the interest to google hunt down some more. Thanks Ken.
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Post by howie1 on Apr 18, 2018 23:09:51 GMT
Last outing, I went with a friend from the club who does AP. He showed me tips n stuff for autoguiding with PHD2. And he has previously expressed an interest in VA / EAA. So just at the end before his battery ran out, he stuck his old color ZWO guide cam into his main scope(he now uses mono guidecam with more sensitivity), and I showed him how to use Sharpcap. I really did nothing more than tell him the main thing was to get the unstacked / normal view/image looking good with stars and neb showing ok (IE gain, exp time, gamma, and color balance via the main windows histogram), and then turning on stacking. I then said to him you concentrate on the stacking histograms sliders to get a nice image. Coming from the AP background (plus he's a smart fellow) that's about all I said and he went ... "Ahh. I get you ..." and he zipped a few sliders and started stacking within a minute of my advice. So his very first EAA was 34 x 15 sec on the Bug Nebula ... and here's his FB post ... heaps better than my first EAA!
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