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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 12:07:25 GMT
Hi I'm just about to get started this is what I'm proposing to use for my first setup. Celestron nexstar SE6 with a wedge and f6.3 Focal reducer with filters (UHC/LPR 0-111) or 60mm F7 refactor on my Nexstar mount. www.sirius-optics.com.au/astrophotography/cameras/zwo-asi-120mc-colour-astronomy-camera.htmlAn old laptop running vista (I have newer laptops but this one is expendable if it gets wet or damaged in the dark Software Astrotoaster? I just want to do basic viewing at this stage, I have everything except the camera. Would this setup be alright to start with until I gain more experience. Any comments or recommendations would be most appreciated . Cheers Martin
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Post by howie1 on Mar 30, 2018 12:56:36 GMT
Martin, you need to use Sharpcap (abbreviated to SC) software which supports (and comes with) ASI cameras. That controls the camera allowing you to set gain and exposure time and stack and stretch the image to bring out the faint details. There's a free version download from either the ZWO site or Sharpcap site. I've used SC in the past before its 'new' features arrived. There's a users manual / quick user guide available from cloudynights forum ... maybe davy's stuck it on here too? Dunno? But SC is what you'll need to use with the ASI's, not AT (Astrotoaster) as AT cannot control the camera gain/exp times. Here's link to the CN thread with the SC Users guide ... www.cloudynights.com/topic/596760-unofficial-sharpcap-quick-start-guide/And the official SC website has a manual for it too. Re the ASI120mc ... put a thread link down below off Cloudy Nights where person asks about the 120mc vs 224mc. I've never used a 120mc but have used a 224mc as do others on this forum. Maybe someone will chime in? If you read the thread link below from CN you'll see the 224 is a favourite cam of the EAA / VA crowd, not the 120mc. Why? The 224 has more dynamic range (bright to dim stuff shows up better without star brightness blowing out and flaring), more sensitive pixels, and less noise from the sensor (grain in the image). But if you've ordered the 120mc already, no worries ... it'll do as a starter. Both 120 and 224 have the same sized chips/sensors and will magnify heaps on even the 0.63 reduced SE6. If you've already got the 120mc ordered, I'd strongly suggest whacking the small acromat F7 onto the SE mount so you get a decent field of view and good starting point. Saw your pm so give us a call to grab a coffee and have a chat sometime. www.cloudynights.com/topic/571533-zwo-asi224mc-thoughts/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 20:45:02 GMT
Howie,thanks for your advice,I haven't ordered the 120 yet , Bintel have the 224 for $419 in stock but it's out of my budget for now as this month I've spent over $1200 on astro gear The 224 looks like a better option ,I've put a guitar on Gumtree so if that sells I can get the 224. I will certainly give you a call to grab a coffee.
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Post by ChrisV on Mar 31, 2018 8:49:34 GMT
+1 with Howie. I don't think the 120MC will be much chop (its pretty noisy which will give a really poor range as it has a low well capacity). The 224MC would be much better. The 290MC also looks interesting - but I haven't seen much about it. There are also Rising Tech and other versions of these cameras which might be cheaper - Ken and others have used these and will know which is which - and they have their own free software..
And as Howie says you'll want to go with SC for these cameras. Try out the free version, and the full version is only $10-20 a year. But wait and see what others say about rising tech cameras.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 11:37:51 GMT
Thanks Chris, the main reasons I was looking at the 120MC was cost and the fact that I have a small laptop running XP and a larger one running vista, I was hoping to use the small laptop for going bush with a portable setup. Both laptops have USB 2 and will only be used for Astronomy use . The 224MC is USB3 as opposed to USB2 on the 120MC I see that there are Sharpcap versions available for older laptops My wife has agreed to let me get the 224MC if that is the best option . Do you know if the 224MC would be backwards compatible with older Laptops ? . I can then upgrade to a more powerful laptop at a later date once I master the basics of Video Astronomy, I hope this all makes sense.
Martin
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Post by Dragon Man on Mar 31, 2018 12:25:55 GMT
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Post by ChrisV on Mar 31, 2018 12:42:50 GMT
Then another reason to get the RT camera. USB2 camera will work (better) on your computer.
So the RT 224 is about $300? Great price!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 21:10:41 GMT
The RT224 looks a really good option, I'm not sure about the Aliexpress website though.......... I could spend all my retirement superannuation funds in six months and have to go back to work.
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Post by davy on Mar 31, 2018 22:13:07 GMT
Welcome to the hobby ,,lol,, when you think your done buying kit,, it's just an illusion lol..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 9:41:00 GMT
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 1, 2018 10:48:51 GMT
That laptop should be fine Martin. These little cameras only need USB2 and the software isn't a data hog. You should be fine.
I don't know how SharpCap would run with it. But the RisingSky software is great anyway. I prefer it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 22:16:56 GMT
Thank's everyone for your comments and advice. I have just ordered the Rising Tech 224 camera. I guess this makes the UHC/LPR and 0-III filters I received obsolete.
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Post by howie1 on Apr 2, 2018 0:34:32 GMT
Thank's everyone for your comments and advice. I have just ordered the Rising Tech 224 camera. I guess this makes the UHC/LPR and 0-III filters I received obsolete. I'm not a big fan of filters Martin. Nothing but nothing beats driving an hour out of town to darker skies. But, I have tried most types of filters (borrowed) and know what they do. I own an Optolong L-Pro but have only used it once. Other VAF posters will probably chime in too. Robert on this forum uses them (I think?). First ... Ken ... help ... (a) Ken always suggests IR cut to reduce star bloat (I think it is?). (b) I suggested previously you use your small refractor because of an easier to find stuff / wider FOV (Field of View) instead of the reduced 6SE OTA. That achromat will get a bit of color fringing ... and Ken suggests yellow #8 or 12 (help Ken I can't recall which it was!). Now the elephant in the room .... You are using Alt Az ... right? If not then what? Alt Az limits you to short exposures. Different technique thats all compared to using Equatorial mounts. Link to one of my vids specifically on field rotation (Alt Az problem) is down below. Re the 6SE mount, or any Alt Az mount ... (a) plenty of people are doing EAA with Alt Az mounts in LP areas. they find the sweet spots in the sky and work out how to get the best from the camera and R Sky or T Sky software; (b) you will at some time get to dark skies an hour from Brissie and be blown away by what you will get with the 224 camera on the 6SE mount. Anyway ... all filters cut out some light from reaching the sensor ... so they increase the exposure time needed for each and every frame in order to get a decent image. So on Alt Az you've got a double whammy ... limited to short exposures by AltAZ and then further shorten the exp times even more by using filters. Doable but again diff techniques. I'd suggest selling the UHC & OIII if you plan to stay on the Alt Az mount. Keep if you think you'll eventually get an Equatorial mount. Why sell these two? Cos they are narrowband so only let a narrow spectrum of light through. Much less light gets to the sensor so even if the object is in a nice 30 sec AltAz spot, each 30 sec frame will only gather a third of the light so the image will be much harder to pull out the detail with so little photons. Keep the LPR to see what you can get in our LP (Light Polluted) bayside suburbs. It'll help you get out more and learn and play with it all. It is broadband so it also lets wider spectrum of light to the sensor so the image is only a tad dimmer and a tad tougher to tease out the details. Anyway my vid on field rotation is in the link ... its 20 mins but pretty thorough and hopefully easy to understand ...
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Post by ChrisV on Apr 2, 2018 0:53:30 GMT
Just go with what you have and the RT software. I've used a UHC filter and liked it but as howie says you will need longer exposures which could be problematic with the alt-az mount.
Maybe push the spacing on your focal reducer to get the FR down.
We expect to see some shots next week!
Edit. Your wedge might overcome the alt az mount issues. And if you want some cash there's someone on iceinspace after a UHC and O-III filter
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 2, 2018 3:55:32 GMT
Thank's everyone for your comments and advice. I have just ordered the Rising Tech 224 camera. I guess this makes the UHC/LPR and 0-III filters I received obsolete. First ... Ken ... help ... (a) Ken always suggests IR cut to reduce star bloat (I think it is?). (b) I suggested previously you use your small refractor because of an easier to find stuff / wider FOV (Field of View) instead of the reduced 6SE OTA. That achromat will get a bit of color fringing ... and Ken suggests yellow #8 or 12 (help Ken I can't recall which it was!). Howie, you mean this bit of info I gave: astrovideoforum.proboards.com/thread/1079/using-achromats-video
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Post by howie1 on Apr 2, 2018 4:08:26 GMT
Perfect Ken ... that was it. Thanks mate!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 9:05:50 GMT
Howie, I understand what you mean by field rotaion And AZ mounts I have a driven EQ2 mount I can try at a pinch. Due to my back Injuries I have been using AZ mounts as I found them comfortable for me to use for visual observation. Now I'm getting into VA I will experiment with Wedges for my goto scopes. I have Celestion starsense for Skywatcher which also works for my Nexstar which means I can polar align the mount and use it in EQ mode so I have a few options to experiment with.
Cheers Martin
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Post by howie1 on Apr 2, 2018 23:49:23 GMT
No worries Martin ... as I said in my post, there are many doing EAA/VA with AltAz and 224 based cameras so keep going mate. It's just a diff technique to Eq. Totally understand where you're coming from as my back and neck injury causes me the same grief. Starsense = nice kit! Wedge ... I'll have to have a look and see if I kept my home made wedge? Will hunt around in the garage and under the stairs. If I find it you are welcome to it. cheers
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 0:02:55 GMT
No worries Martin ... as I said in my post, there are many doing EAA/VA with AltAz and 224 based cameras so keep going mate. It's just a diff technique to Eq. Totally understand where you're coming from as my back and neck injury causes me the same grief. Starsense = nice kit! Wedge ... I'll have to have a look and see if I kept my home made wedge? Will hunt around in the garage and under the stairs. If I find it you are welcome to it. cheers That would be great Howie thank you
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Post by howie1 on Apr 3, 2018 12:35:46 GMT
Interesting new thread started over on CN re SharpCap versions which work with RT cameras ... www.cloudynights.com/topic/613293-what-versions-of-sharpcap-work-with-rt224/#entry8493753And sorry Martin ... looked through the garage and cannot find the home made wedge. I suspect I tossed it when I got my Eq mount. It was simple and cheap though using stuff from Bunnings. Epoxy, Aluminium rectangular section, some nuts & bolts of same thread as the 3 base bolts on the Celestron tripod, two nyloc nuts to act as hinges on the ALT plate, two turnbuckles to act as adjusters of the ALT plate. I'll draw it up if you are interested.
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