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Post by howie1 on Apr 8, 2017 0:23:55 GMT
As per the subject line, this isn't my photo but worth posting as it is spectacular (IMO). I subscribe to the site spaceweather.com and this image was on there. It was taken by Sylvain Weiller of Jerusalem, Israel who says: "This was the view through my 10-inch telescope," says Weiller. By taking the pictures at slightly different times (16 minutes apart), he allowed the rapid rotation of Jupiter to create a stereoscopic effect. Crossing your eyes and mentally merging the two images, Jupiter pops out of the screen in 3D." If you have trouble going cross eyed here's some tips ... First click on the photo to get the large full window size on your pc. Then sit back at arms length from the blown up full-screen image on your pc then hold a pencil at arms length just in front of your screen with the tip right between the left and right jupiter images. Focus on the tip of that pencil. Your peripheral vision should still 'see' the two Jupiters while you concentrate on focusing on the pencil tip. Then while continuing to focus only on the pencil tip, move the pencil away from the screen towards you until it is about two or three inches from your nose. While you do that, you should 'see' with your peripheral vision, the two Jupiters gradually merging together as one in the background. Once they are 'merged, try to keep your eyes crossed/in their crossed position and take away the pencil. You should see the Jupiters snap into focus as one 'ball' in 3D. With a few attempts you should get it.
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 8, 2017 8:23:48 GMT
Thanks Howie, his 3D effect works well I have fun making some of my images 3D too. the effect is amazing. Here's some of mine: (Have a good look around in this one)
and Omega Centauri (not one of my better ones)
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Post by howie1 on Apr 8, 2017 10:23:59 GMT
Ken, fantastic! For some reason the crux took a while to 'form' then it was beaut! I'd love to have a crack making a 3d photo. How?
cheers Howie
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 8, 2017 11:03:04 GMT
Thanks Howie.
If you are really keen, you will need about a week of free time to come here while I show you how to achieve the 3D effect on the pics we take. Normal 3D imaging can be done in a matter of minutes, but not so for us. The problem is that you need two photos (that part is obvious), but everything in space looks identical from here on Earth no matter how far you travel away from your first photo to take your second photo.
Sylvain had the advantage of a spinning Jupiter to help attain a form of double image perspective, but it is probably the only thing in the whole sky that will work that way (maybe the Galileans moons if you are keen). To achieve 3D with our images, the sky has to be either: 1. photographed from 2 different angles about a light year apart (impossible) . . OR 2. Manipulate every single star and bit of nebula in the whole image.
For number 2, the more stars the harder it gets. Sometimes weeks just to do the stars, then anything else in the image (dust and gas) needs to be manipulated in an even harder way. It is fun, but very tedious and a loooooong project.
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Post by howie1 on Apr 9, 2017 3:45:22 GMT
Aha, so are you using PS layers and marking stuff for different layers, then shifting them a tad relative to each other to achieve the effect?
Cheers Howie
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 9, 2017 6:27:00 GMT
Pretty close to what I do, yep. Each and every single star has to be moved by different amounts according to distance. Thousands of them . . . and that's the easy part Gas, Nebula, and holes in the starfield have to be treated totally different because they stretch through space starting and finishing at different distances from our view. That's the hard part You can't simply move them, or they would appear either close or far, but not both at the same time on the same object. The bottom left quarter of my Crux Image is a good example of how objects needs to move in one fluid motion from far away to the foreground. Notice how the Bok Globules reach out. Achieving that effect was the hardest part of this project. The holes going deep into the star cloud were a bit easier.
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Post by howie1 on Apr 10, 2017 2:07:09 GMT
The Astro clubs next Lake Wyaralong outing is in two weeks time (no Moon). As its been two months since any sort of astronomy, and also inspired by that post I put up of Sylvain's 3D Jupiter, plus as it was clear at 6:30pm last night, I decided to get out and try out planetary imaging. Hopefully I will learn something so that in two weeks when at the Lake in good dark skies and able to stay up until Jupiter and Saturn are both nearly at the Meridian, that I wont waste that precious time and place, and get some good planetary stuff going! So last night, I put up my son's 12" f/5 GoTo Dob. The Canon 700d (unmodded) will not reach focus in that, but as its a planet I was chasing, I wanted to put a 2x barlow on ... and that enables the Canon to come to focus as well as get the extra mag needed for planets. Jupiter was 20 degrees above the horizon, which isnt great due to the extra atmosphere we're peering through compared to if it had been overhead, but heck it was a learning thing that I was trying to do. It was fun just watching Jupiter live EAA'ing with the Canon Liveview feed at 5x magnification. Took me a while to focus Jodi (he calls the ol' dob after Jodi Kidd as its very tall, and perfectly formed!) as its not an efocuser so I was struggling with the image shaking badly every time I touched the focuser knob. So while focusing, I kept sitting there just watching Jupiter! So as Jodi is 1500mm focal length, then the Canons 23mm wide sensor would be getting 65x mag. Then using the 2x barlow, that makes it actually 130x mag. Then the 5x setting in the Canon Liveview makes it 652x mag with a FOV of about 5 arcmins. Anyway, I was there to shoot Jupiter so I cranked up EOS Movie Record (free) to shoot 1000 frames and today I processed in Registax with a final denoise in Lightroom 4. It is simply staggering what can be made by Registax from a jerky blurry set of frames. If you wish to see the Live View EAA 'feed' its in this video ...
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Post by davy on Apr 10, 2017 8:17:52 GMT
Cracking image after working the magic
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Post by ChrisV on Apr 10, 2017 9:37:24 GMT
Love that 3D. That works really well with Jupiter
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 10, 2017 12:09:18 GMT
Well done Howie If you can get 2 matching images of Jupiter with it's red spot about 1 hour apart you can make it 3D
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Post by howie1 on Apr 11, 2017 2:18:09 GMT
Thanks Ken.
3D imaging ... That may be tonight! By 10pm Jupiter is as high as it is going to allow the GRS to be visible. 11pm the GRS has disappeared over Jupiters edge. Plus Brissie today has wonderful conditions ... there isnt a cloud in the sky, its only 24 degrees C at midday. So nice cool conditions shouldn't "boil" up water nor the skies/atmosphere/clouds for tonight. Crossing fingers!
I've also been reading up Jerry Lodriguss tips on planetary stuff with a DSLR. It appears the best mag / details / least noise / best arc secs per pixel is achieved at f/20 (normal viewing conditions) to f/30 (really good conditions), plus the Canon Live View 5x mag setting automatically puts the camera's image in something he calls native sensor resolution / best arc secs per pixel for planets. His (and others) discussion on this is complex and I'm befuddled by it all! Easy to do! LOL! But in the end, Jerry has had 40 years of AP experience and awards ... so he's got to be correct! So my first crack the other night was f/5 + 2x barlow (which made f/10) plus the 5x Live View mag which made f/50! So to get to f/25, all I have to do is take the 2x barlow.
So will hopefully give it a go tonight at 10pm. Also, by midnight Saturn is 33 degrees above horizon so I'll give that a go too.
Cheers Howie
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Post by howie1 on Apr 11, 2017 8:56:39 GMT
Just as well I kept reading stuff from Jerry Lodriguss and others this afternoon. Turns out by pure fluke that I was totally correct in putting that 2x barlow onto the 1500mm dob! I found another Jerry article on the web in which he goes through both non planetary as well as planetary imaging vs pixel size ... worth a read if anyone else is getting into it. Links below. I must have misunderstood what he meant by f ratio should be f/20 to f/30. Now after reading this next article (link below) and also going to an online calculator website (link also below) as they both yield the same result ... my 1500mm dob plus 2x barlow plus canon was spot on. Total fluke by me! Anyway I used his forumla and plugging my required arc secs per pixel and sensors microns in, it told me I needed 2950mm focal lentgh on the scope. Which is my 1500mm dob plus a 2x barlow! www.astropix.com/wp/2011/03/01/sampling-and-pixel-size/And had this confirmed in another website with online calculators ... which showed 3000mm focal length with my Canons 4.3 micron pixels was right on the 0.3 arc secs per pixel limit for planetary details. (Note, apparently in really good seeing conditions you can go done to 0.1 arcsecs/pixel on planets) www.wilmslowastro.com/software/formulae.htm#ARCSEC_PIXEL
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Post by ChrisV on Apr 11, 2017 15:05:27 GMT
So how does 0.3" per pixel work if seeing is only 2-3". Or does lucky imaging take care of that ?
Be interesting to see what images you come up with Howie. Sounds like a good full moon partly cloudy occupation.
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robrj
Member
Posts: 248
home town/country: Escondido, CA
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Post by robrj on Apr 21, 2017 1:50:32 GMT
Very cool images Ken. I'd like to try it in an Occulus Rift device. I have a Samsung Gear VR coming (free with a preorder of an S8 or S8+). I'll give it a shot when I get it. I can see it pretty easily but my wife can't cross her eyes right.
I'd like to see the technique for making them.
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Post by Dragon Man on Apr 21, 2017 13:09:50 GMT
Very cool images Ken. I'd like to try it in an Occulus Rift device. I have a Samsung Gear VR coming (free with a preorder of an S8 or S8+). I'll give it a shot when I get it. I can see it pretty easily but my wife can't cross her eyes right. I'd like to see the technique for making them. Rob, about the easiest way to show you the technique is to to give you some very basic samples and show how to do it. Here in pic 1 are two identical images. I made a line of stars (well, dots LOL). Going crosseyed shows no change because both images are identical. Try it: Then, in the right side frame I have moved each star to the left a tiny fraction, a slight bit more than each preceding star. Looking at it crosseyed shows each star seem to move further away from us as they go down the image because they are moved to the left: Now here we see them move 'closer' to us by moving each star slightly to the right of each preceding star: Here I have made a double frame image of stars of different sizes. You can see how the little stars move either closer to us or further from us compared to the centre line of stars: and here I made a busier field of stars with some moved some to the left, and some to the right, and all by different amounts. You can see how they are all at different distances from us according to how much each star has been moved: Now you know how it's done, here's a double frame image for you to try it out. Nothing is done to it yet. Just 2 identical frames. Give it a go and then show us how you went with it. Any of you can try it and post your result. It's all good fun
TIP: The method I use to move each star is with the Clone tool in PhotoShop. If you don't have a clone tool you could try copy/paste each star. That would work but it is slower.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 10:52:31 GMT
I've just come across this. When I crossed my eyes, my eyes nearly popped out of my head and my jaw hit the floor! I also just showed my son, and he too couldn't believe how effective the process is. Blooming marvellous stuff! Alex.
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Post by Dragon Man on Sept 22, 2017 16:04:13 GMT
I've just come across this. When I crossed my eyes, my eyes nearly popped out of my head and my jaw hit the floor! I also just showed my son, and he too couldn't believe how effective the process is. Blooming marvellous stuff! Alex. Just remember to uncross your eyes afterwards so you don't walk into walls
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