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Post by Rick in NWArk on Feb 23, 2015 18:54:23 GMT
I'm not sure where to start on this one... and I may ramble and rant, so apologies in advance!
I'm a bit frustrated with my situation and I'm not sure what I should do.
Mounts: Celestron AVX (30 lbs) with star sense, EQ6 (50 lbs) - but with goto/controller issues due to un-upgradable firmware. Scopes: Orion 80EDT Triplet APO, MallinCam VRC8 204mm RC Carbon Fiber
I have to move my equipment and do a full setup near my driveway to give myself the clearest views of the skies, so its a full setup and takedown each time.
I have been having a blast with my 80EDT... I've had it on my AVX doing both white light solar broadcasts as well as some broadcasts of night views. Love the views, love the scope for what it is. No issues with setup, getting into decent focus and getting everything to work.
But the 80EDT is what it is. Short Focal Length so no good for Jupiter or Craters. Some limitations on magnitude.
So the other night I decided I'd get out the VRC8. Jupiter was up and I wanted to try to get it on camera. I got it on the AVX and got it all balanced. I used the Star Sense and it got all aligned. But then the problems:
I had major problems getting it focused with the MallinCam Jr Pro in there. I tried with and without focal reduction and different combinations of the telescope spacers (2x25mm and 1x50mm). I also tried using a focal extender. Then I ripped out all the MallinCam and went to my ZWO ASI120MC -- that I had just used for solar a couple hours earlier with no problems. And I couldn't get that to come in focus. I ripped all that out and went to an eyepiece and got it in a 16mm eyepeiece nice and clear. Then went back to the ASI120MC and could not get it in the picture. I couldnt get stars so that I could walk the scope around to get Jupiter on the chip.
After 4 hours, I was ready to drop kick the telescope.
So now I am wondering if I should sell it and get a big refractor or what? If I get a big refractor, its going to be too big for the AVX. I am hesitant to sell both scopes to get one 5" APO. That 5" APO will still stink with planets. And I'll have to upgrade my mount -- assuming my EQ6 is unusable and unsellable.
I thought I got to the point where I didnt have these kind of frustrations, but apparently not.
Sorry, just ranting I know.
Thanks for any suggestions or comments!
--Rick
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Post by davy on Feb 23, 2015 20:57:25 GMT
Yip know where you're coming from rick...I have the same problem and trying to solve it.brilliant south view from my flat but the light pollution is murder so I would need to carry my kit down three flights of stairs to the car to go to a darker site..time wise it's not good. the portable array I'm working on may solve the portability issue..what I have just now Is three static cameras on a frame and what i want is a skywatcher heritage virtuossa will get the mak 90 version but remove it and fit cameras to the mount ..the mount has great features..like video cruise and can be upgraded to full goto with a hand set or computer control via laptop
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Post by Dragon Man on Feb 24, 2015 3:59:40 GMT
Tough situation Rick! Both scopes are great scopes. As far as I know, the VRC needs quite a bit of Extension to reach focus. Interesting that you see a negative in that the EQ6 isn't upgradable. Mine isn't either because I have the old v2.5a hand controller. In the 7 years I have owned it I haven't had a need to upgrade anything, so I really don't see the fuss over the later upgradable hand controllers By the way, it is only the hand controller that is upgradable, not the mount. So if you ever feel that you prefer the upgradable EQ6, any EQ6 GoTo mount is fine, you just have to buy the upgradable (v3 onwards) hand controller. You may already know that, but I know a couple of people who actually sold their whole mounts and bought new ones to get upgradable v3, thinking it is the Mount that upgrades, not the hand controller. But back to your scope question, my suggestion is, don't sell 2 scopes to buy one. You have a good selection of focal lengths/ratios already. Having only the one refractor will limit your options.
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Post by johnno on Feb 24, 2015 16:41:17 GMT
Rick have you checked collimation it could be out
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Feb 24, 2015 18:37:22 GMT
Tough situation Rick! Both scopes are great scopes. As far as I know, the VRC needs quite a bit of Extension to reach focus. Interesting that you see a negative in that the EQ6 isn't upgradable. Mine isn't either because I have the old v2.5a hand controller. In the 7 years I have owned it I haven't had a need to upgrade anything, so I really don't see the fuss over the later upgradable hand controllers By the way, it is only the hand controller that is upgradable, not the mount. So if you ever feel that you prefer the upgradable EQ6, any EQ6 GoTo mount is fine, you just have to buy the upgradable (v3 onwards) hand controller. You may already know that, but I know a couple of people who actually sold their whole mounts and bought new ones to get upgradable v3, thinking it is the Mount that upgrades, not the hand controller. But back to your scope question, my suggestion is, don't sell 2 scopes to buy one. You have a good selection of focal lengths/ratios already. Having only the one refractor will limit your options. Thanks, Ken for the input! Yes, I'm aware of the hand controller being the issue... that said, I havent had a whole lot of luck in getting it to track well. I am assuming that its a polar align issue. The polar scope is a pain on this mount. At the end of the day, I could give drift alignment a shot to get polar aligned better and really determine if I have mount issues or not. Can I ask: how do you goto? Do you use ASCOM and such? At the end of the day, from a telescope perspective, is that I have a good big object scope in the 80mm f/6 (with MFR focal reduction). I am just frustrated at the lack of being able to do planetary imaging and if 100mm of spacers plus 50mm of extension tube is not enough, then I'm going to be hanging my laundry on the imaging chain needed off the back of that scope.
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Feb 24, 2015 18:41:25 GMT
John, I have not checked collimation for a while, but it seemed fine in November. The scope has been sitting for about 4 months and this was its first time out since then. I should probably recheck, even tho Rock claims that these scopes seldom lose collimation.
Thanks!
--Rick
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Post by davy on Feb 24, 2015 19:36:24 GMT
Hi rick..I use ascom platform ..eqmod and run through eqtooth instead of wires..and carte de ciel software. . I hate using the handset now.
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Feb 24, 2015 19:56:55 GMT
Cool thanks Davy... I'm going to give that a try before I totally give up on that mount. Regarding scopes, maybe my thought process is just batty? Maybe I need to first, decide what image scales (field of views) I would like to attain and THEN figure out which combinations of scope(s), Barlows, focal reducers, and spacers or extenders I need to achieve the images I'm looking for? Maybe I've been bassackward this whole time!
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Post by davy on Feb 24, 2015 21:41:03 GMT
Dont worry about it rick us video geezers do things out the box lol.
i bought an off axis guider to try and fit two cameras to the one scope, thats another one in the pipeline for me
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Post by Dragon Man on Feb 25, 2015 6:42:48 GMT
Thanks, Ken for the input! . . . Can I ask: how do you goto? Do you use ASCOM and such? No Rick, I don't use Ascom. I do it the old fashion way. Polar align, then do a 3 star alignment. I only use the Hand controller. An old v2.5a hand controller. I do the exact opposite of davy's post: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by davy10 hours ago
Hi rick..I use ascom platform ..eqmod and run through eqtooth instead of wires..and carte de ciel software. . I hate using the handset now.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I gave EQmod a go. It was even set up for me by one of EQmod's Beta Testers who helped in some of the making of EQmod. It wouldn't do accurate GoTo's. He worked at it for hours at a time on several occasions and could never get my mount to get accurate GoTo's, so I stopped using it. My antiquated v2.5a Hand Controller gives me dead accurate GoT's every time. It has for the 10 years I've owned it. I will never use EQmod again. I must admit that I leave my EQ6 set up in my back yard. I don't have to polar align it every time. It gets covered in just a towel and a plastic bag. 10 years out in all sorts of weather and it is still accurate. I did cover it in a small Toilet tent once to help keep snow off it, but we got a wild storm and the wind ripped it to pices LOL! but the mount still didn't lose Polar alignment. Here's what happened to the Toilet tent
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Feb 25, 2015 14:50:14 GMT
Holy cow!
I know you and I have discussed the EQ6 before -- when I was so angry I was ready to give up.
I cant remember my firmware version off the top of my head, but I likely have never gotten it snap-on polar aligned. Gotos are always off (of course way off for Solar System) and tracking is off as well.
That said, I did get it used - so it could have other issues that I'm not experienced enough to identify.
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Post by Dragon Man on Feb 25, 2015 16:41:43 GMT
Yeah Rick, they are a real pain if they aren't polar aligned. That will be your main problem. You have to Polar align it pretty close. A 3 star alignment is also the most accurate star alignment method. I never trust 1 or 2 star alignments. It is also very important to choose the correct 3 stars for your alignment. I had all sorts of grief until I discovered I was using the wrong stars. IMPORTANT! The first 2 stars need to be in the eastern half of the sky about 30-60 degrees up and about 30-50 degrees apart. And the third star has to be in the western half of the sky and be about 30-60 degrees up. This is how the Manual explains it: Rules for choosing alignment stars:
• The 3 alignment stars should be spread out on both sides of the meridian.
• For the two alignment star on the same side of the meridian, the deviation in their
R.A. should be greater than 3 hours, and the absolute value of the difference of the
two alignment stars’ declination should be between 10 to 30 degrees.
( 10° < |Dec1 – Dec2| < 30°)You can find out what version Hand Controller you have by turning it on. The Version should show up in the display on the controller when you first fire it up. Check Tracking speed is set to: 'Sidereal' when tracking DSO's and Planets, 'Lunar' when tracking the Moon, 'Solar' when tracking the Sun. I forgot to take my mount off Solar one time after doing some Solar imaging, and wondered why it kept losing DSO's I bought mine second hand too Rick.
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Post by johnno on Feb 26, 2015 15:37:46 GMT
Rick did you sort out the focusing issue?
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Feb 28, 2015 3:43:39 GMT
IMPORTANT! The first 2 stars need to be in the eastern half of the sky about 30-60 degrees up and about 30-50 degrees apart. And the third star has to be in the western half of the sky and be about 30-60 degrees up. ... You can find out what version Hand Controller you have by turning it on. The Version should show up in the display on the controller when you first fire it up. Check Tracking speed is set to: 'Sidereal' when tracking DSO's and Planets, 'Lunar' when tracking the Moon, 'Solar' when tracking the Sun.
Thanks for all of this, Ken!
For me I have to choose 2 to the W and 1 to the E but usually pretty high or pretty S. I have a giant set of trees to my direct E.
My version is 02.05
--Rick
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Feb 28, 2015 3:44:20 GMT
Rick did you sort out the focusing issue?
I haven't had a chance to do anything else yet.
I have some b. masks but seem to have somehow lost them!
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Post by Dragon Man on Feb 28, 2015 7:58:15 GMT
Nothing wrong with v 2.05 Rick. The only problem Skywatcher ever had with ANY of their hand controllers was with v2.5a, and guess which one I've got v2.5a won't GoTo planets and Moon, but everything else is fine. But no-one in the Northern Hemisphere need worry that they have that dud model because the 'a' stands for Australia. It is programmed for the Southern Sky 3 star alignment, and in their rush to re-program for us they forgot to set the Solar System objects But it doesn't bother me because I'm not a Solar System observer. I could buy the v3 hand controller, but I've never needed it. I can get one for about $290 www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-synscan-v3-handset.htmlYes, you can use 2 stars in your west and 1 in the East.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 18:13:30 GMT
Rick,
Use a 6mm eyepiece for a 1/3 chip and a 8mm eyepiece for a 1/2" chip to get a close focus first. Take note distance of bottom element in relation to any adapter used, and try to match distance with chip. Should be close.
Richard
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 18:14:44 GMT
Rick,
On my scope more reduction = more in focus, less reduction more "out" focus. Also use a very bright object to find focus. Sirius, Venus, Jupiter, or the moon.
Richard
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Mar 2, 2015 14:46:20 GMT
Hi Richard,
Thanks for your suggestions. I actually have a flip mirror that I've tried to use with small to medium eyepieces, depending on the focal reduction I'm planning to use. The problem with the VRC is that there are so many pieces in play.
I do need to start making notes on scope / spacers / extenders / focal modification.
I just created a spreadsheet with the final effective focal length needed to get many objects to a pleasant image scale.
--Rick
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Post by Rick in NWArk on Mar 2, 2015 14:49:20 GMT
Nothing wrong with v 2.05 Rick. The only problem Skywatcher ever had with ANY of their hand controllers was with v2.5a, and guess which one I've got v2.5a won't GoTo planets and Moon, but everything else is fine. But no-one in the Northern Hemisphere need worry that they have that dud model because the 'a' stands for Australia. It is programmed for the Southern Sky 3 star alignment, and in their rush to re-program for us they forgot to set the Solar System objects But it doesn't bother me because I'm not a Solar System observer. I could buy the v3 hand controller, but I've never needed it. I can get one for about $290 www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-synscan-v3-handset.htmlYes, you can use 2 stars in your west and 1 in the East. Even more evidence that I am just off with something. Assuming gears etc. are okay. I found a video this weekend on calibrating your polar alignment scope. That's going to be my next step I think.
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